jr
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Registered: 20th May 02
Location: Kent
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quote:
Originally posted by deano87
I'd rather an E46 M3 than Astra VXR.
id rather a space shuttle than a boat, not really fair comparesent
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deano87
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Registered: 21st Oct 06
Location: Bedfordshire Drives: Ford Fiesta
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Well it was, considering that is what Jambo was considering 
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Ojc
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Registered: 14th Nov 00
Location: Reading: Drives : Clio 197
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quote:
Originally posted by Jambo
brakes on astra? £200? Something like that?
£700 for bmw.
My next service will be around that too 
Exactly, and when you want to start saving money and still have fun in a car the Astra is an excellent alternative
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Joe
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Registered: 20th Jun 04
Location: Hesketh Bank, Lancashire
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quote:
Originally posted by Jambo
i like Astra VXR's so much so i very, very very nearly bought one. Red, 19s leather etc. 58plate. Was going to go ahead untill i realised the real cost of owning a brand new car.
I like my Vauxhalls and will always do, currently adding another B to the family.
However the difference in build quality/materiels isnt just the plastics. My M3's dash is much more tactile and more quality feeling than the 08plate astra i drove, now before people jump on the price comparison etc. My car was made in 2002 and uses the same dash as the 318 if im not mistaken. But, driving any new bmw (with correct wheels driven for a start) compared to a vx/ford/vw etc etc is the overall feel and experience. It makes vxs seem like they are put together with string. And i dont mean the dash i mean the way the steering feels, the dynamics etc. That is why BMWs are popular. I agree there are badge snobs out there who wouldnt drive a vx because of the badge (i.e my dad :lol but thats their loss. Vx make great cars. But if i had the choice between a vectra c and an e60 5series i would not buy the taxi if i had the extra cash, because quite simply its a far better car in every aspect.
I have sat in an insignia and it was mightly impressive, but if u sit the interior next to an A4 the A4 is far more attractive, and looks like its worth more. If you compare the dynamics (not that i have personly)
It woule easily be on par with the a4 imo but then the reason that looses out to the BMW in the tests every generation is due to the poor dynamics by comparison. If Vx could make a non aussie RWD car they would be onto a winner.
Arguing this is all nonsense really. Both car makers make excellent cars, as well as some poop ones, but they are aimed at a different markets.
Vx especialy have come along way in recent years and the gap is closing, but if they are aiming at the premium market? Then alot more work to be done.
On another note, according to Autocar last week, the infiniti coupe thing, is aparently much better than the bmw, audi and merc equivilant.
Thank you for summing up what I've been trying to say all along James.
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jr
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Registered: 20th May 02
Location: Kent
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See i think the B7 a4 interior is no better in anyway than an astra bar the MMI system
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Jambo
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Registered: 8th Sep 01
Location: Maidenhead, Drives: VXR Arctic
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i based that purely on aesthetics jr, i havent sat in one. Built well or not. Looks amazing IMO
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jr
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Registered: 20th May 02
Location: Kent
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ah fair enough
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Ojc
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Registered: 14th Nov 00
Location: Reading: Drives : Clio 197
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Realibilty between Vauxhall & Audi, now that is going to be a close call surely? Obviously Vauxhall sell more so there will be more instances of Vauxhall going wrong.
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jr
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Registered: 20th May 02
Location: Kent
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i dont know as ive never worked for vaux, but audis are not as good as everyone seems to think on hear
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Jambo
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Registered: 8th Sep 01
Location: Maidenhead, Drives: VXR Arctic
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modern cars in general seem to be pretty reliable these days no?
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Ojc
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Registered: 14th Nov 00
Location: Reading: Drives : Clio 197
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Yes Jambo, but when they go wrong nobody knows how to fix them.
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whitter45
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Registered: 15th Nov 02
Location: Norton
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Must say i owned a TT for 3 years and had a fair bit of trouble with it
The actial feel of the cabin was very sloid but by no means are they a sloid car
BMW are pretty much the same
Ford and Vauxhall have come on leaps and bounds and IMO better made than VW golfs etc
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Jambo
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Registered: 8th Sep 01
Location: Maidenhead, Drives: VXR Arctic
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sounds about right the way most things are going
Any issues with your 1st vxr?
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AndyKent
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Registered: 3rd Sep 05
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Who cares what everyone else thinks?
I bought my Golf after having a sit/drive in an Astra and went for the one I liked best. The Astra interior was pretty naff compared to my Golf - the Golf seems more upmarket with more expensive materials.
I don't care if it IS more expensive or not, it just feels it and that makes me happy.
Servicing is no different, as are spare parts as far as I know. Yes, I could have had a newer Astra for the same price as the Golf, but the golf will also be worth more when I come to sell it in 2/3 years time.
Some might not agree, but thats why I bought mine.....
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Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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quote:
Originally posted by Joe
What will the Vauxhall be worth after a year, compared to the Audi after a year?
Who will get to where-ever location quicker and more fun?
Isn't that what driving is about, to get somewhere?
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Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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Just my bit.
I love vauxhalls, they've come on HUGELY in the last 5 years. Quality has vastly improved.
Performance wise, like for like Vs some german cars, well some VX's are quicker, and some Germans are quicker, each has their own merits and flaws.
Personnally, how the car drives is the most important for me, some people want good fuel economy, some want looks, some just want the badge (not usually having any interest in cars).
Reliability, well we all loose out to Honda, end of..........
To me, there isn't £8k worth of "luxery" items in any equivilant german car over a ford or vauxhall. Add £2-£3k and we're talking real numbers, but then I guess this is the difference in profit margins.
But then its about badges... Why pay £200k for Ferrari when you can buy a £80k sport car that'll wipe the floor of the Ferrari, but its the badge..
Exactly the same with motorcycles and Ducati
And with clothing and designer names. £150 for a fancy named t-shirt, or £3 from Primark? Sure ones going to be a bit better, but £147 better????
So yes, ze germans, are still ahead on quality, but not as far as they were 10 years ago. I still think the majority buy due to the badge and the reputation, but then thats because 99% of people are A to B drivers and don't car if the chea car has an extra 3% cornering speed and 5% acceleration....... If its got a poorer badge, they won't own it.
Would a snob buy a brand new unseen ferrari if it was badged up as a Lada???? No.....
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Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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quote:
Originally posted by Jambo
sounds about right the way most things are going
Any issues with your 1st vxr?
We have an early model VXR.... So really being a "cheap" make it should have lots of problems in the first few years...
Not one single issue............
20,000 mile service interval also.. (on a sidenote, the bloke at works "eco friendly" Prius rides on donut rubber that needs replacing every 2 days, and 10,000 mile service intervals).
Cost of ownership, purchase, servicing, parts on a german car.
Cost of ownership, purchase, serving, and parts on a UK car (Ford, Vauxhall etc).
The german cars are built slightly better, and you can feel it (just got out of an A4 actually ) but not the price they demand.
And what the feck is with rear lights going out due to "electrical" problems on the Mk4 golf??????? Quality control anyone  Quite a poor thing to miss that one.
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Ojc
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Registered: 14th Nov 00
Location: Reading: Drives : Clio 197
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I've had 3 VXR's 15k in the first Astra, 12k in the Corsa VXR and 3k in the latest Astra not one issue other than tyres
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Joe
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Registered: 20th Jun 04
Location: Hesketh Bank, Lancashire
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quote:
Originally posted by VXR
quote:
Originally posted by Joe
What will the Vauxhall be worth after a year, compared to the Audi after a year?
Who will get to where-ever location quicker and more fun?
Isn't that what driving is about, to get somewhere?
Yeah but on the roads does that really matter? Most cars spend all of their lives on the roads, so I'd rather have a decent road car than one that is fast as fuck round the ring.
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Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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RS4 or Vectra VXR though...
Sorry vauxhall, you loose in every way
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Robin
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Jan 04
Location: Northants Drives: Clio 182 Cup
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quote:
Originally posted by VXR
Performance wise, like for like Vs some german cars, well some VX's are quicker, and some Germans are quicker, each has their own merits and flaws.
Personnally, how the car drives is the most important for me, some people want good fuel economy, some want looks, some just want the badge (not usually having any interest in cars).
To me, there isn't £8k worth of "luxery" items in any equivilant german car over a ford or vauxhall. Add £2-£3k and we're talking real numbers, but then I guess this is the difference in profit margins.
Most German cars actually come with less standard equipment, even at the extra cost. My BMW (when it was new) would have had about 15 options ticked which would be standard in a Vectra of the same age.
However, having driven both 2 litre petrol and diesel Vectras and 320s, there was a HUGE difference in the way the cars drove, the BMW is much better.
Most people wouldn't care as to them it's normally a family car. A lot of people have massive badge snobbery, my brother for example, wouldn't buy a new Zafira, instead, he bought a VW Touran, which has a better engine, but is inferior in most ways, other than the quality of the dash plastics maybe.... but, I picked the better car for the fact that it was the better car, it's not what I intended to buy, I was actually looking for something more sporty.
As for some Vauxhalls being quicker, maybe true, but they might not be better to drive.
I get accused of buying a BMW for the sake of having a BMW, but I'm a Vauxhall man at heart, I just fell for the better car.
I totally agree with you about the Germans not being as far ahead as they were 10 years ago in terms of quality.
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Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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Yeah, you REALLY pay for the options, anyone know how much the sat nav systems are as an extra in ze german cars?
Astra was £1500 I think, you get a bigger colour screen and the sat nav system.
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AndyKent
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Registered: 3rd Sep 05
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About the same for colour Sat-nav in the Golf too IIRC give or take £50
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deano87
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Registered: 21st Oct 06
Location: Bedfordshire Drives: Ford Fiesta
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It's about that in BMW's. May be a bit less than £1500. I think that is because most now don't need modding so much. Where the pop-up satnav would be in dad's 120d is just a storage tray.
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