quote:

---

Originally posted by Cavey
Yeah you do, maybe only a couple, but you always get fans getting on pitches.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cosmo
Ive heard rumours that it was Spurs fans who caused all this trouble.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cavey
Yeah you do, maybe only a couple, but you always get fans getting on pitches.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by nik
I heard that Sheffield United want 10 points from West Ham to help them get past the play offs this season as fat boy Kevin Blackwell was disturbed at what he witnessed last night.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cosmo
Ive heard rumours that it was Spurs fans who caused all this trouble.

---

quote:

---

A certain element smiled when West Ham and Millwall were drawn together,
while the rest of football held its head in its hands. When those two teams
meet it goes beyond football and the game should not be punching itself on
the nose over what happened.


The violence certainly wouldn't have been pre-planned. As soon as this game
was drawn everyone would have given that knowing wink saying: "Hello, this
is going to be a long night."


Take it from a former member of one of the so-called most organised firms
in history, the InterCity Firm, the trouble of the 70s and 80s was never as
organised as people thought. It was more a case of like-minded souls
thinking the same way.


Today it is very much underground and those who meet via websites and
mobile phones really are a small minority. The arrests from these groups
are no more than you get at pop concerts, carnivals or any event where
crowds gather. It really is under the control of the football authorities,
unlike in the 70s and 80s when we, the firms, ran the show. We did what we
wanted and were always one step ahead of the authorities.


After Heysel and the Taylor Report the football thug has never enjoyed the
same power. Only complacency can give them the maximum effect, as it did on
Tuesday night. The violence that happens today is on such a small scale
that it has to be organised and it doesn't affect normal football fans on
the whole. Violence in the 70s and 80s did not have to be organised because
it was the culture and it did affect the game. Now, older and wiser, I can
see that we did come close to killing the game.


Anyone who knows the score knows this rivalry goes beyond Millwall football
club and West Ham United football club – it is east London versus south
London. To back this up you just need to look at the gates.


The biggest crowds any club will draw are their local rivals. But if you
look at the history of the "big one" between West Ham and Millwall, the
gates have always been low because normal fans know what this game is about
and kids, wives and girlfriends will stay away, allowing a lot of young
males to take their places. The crowd at the Boleyn Ground on Tuesday night
was not what I see as a season-ticket holder – it was as if a section of
the East End took its club back.


How different a rivalry it is can be explained in 48 hours. Tottenham is a
high-risk game, but their fans were given their full allocation of tickets,
pubs could open, traders carried on as normal and the game on Sunday passed
off almost without incident. On Tuesday night Millwall's allocation was
halved and pubs and shops were boarded up.


What happened was a result of that draw. These teams and their supporters
cannot meet and the only way you can solve that and keep the integrity of
the competition is to ban away fans.


The police were there in numbers, but it was a very strange atmosphere.
Experienced riot police who have seen it all before would normally be more
aggressive and act in a no-nonsense fashion. The hate that these two groups
of supporters generate was not met with the zero-tolerance that they would
normally put into a football game. That special policing was not felt and
it was almost like the 70s when that thin blue line was stuck in the
middle, doing its best to keep fans apart rather than taking them on and
stopping them.


There was a lack of aggression and I'm wondering if the tactics were
affected by what happened at the G20 protests and perhaps their hands were
tied behind their back somewhat. The police rely on CCTV so much – they can
arrest hundreds after the fact and they allow the riots to develop. Either
they knew they didn't have the numbers to tackle head-on a crowd hell-bent
on trouble, or their tactics have changed and they now allow people to riot
and commit the most serious crime possible, then arrest them afterwards on
the strength of CCTV footage.


It seemed to me they allowed the riot to develop, to the risk of residents
and traders, and it will be interesting to see if they do their policing
via CCTV. It's years since the Millwall-Birmingham riots and they are still
arresting people on the back of video evidence. I think Tuesday night will
keep Crimewatch busy for the next three years.......

---