Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
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Is this available on the web anywhere or can anyone scan me the page on roundabouts? I need to win a dispute over a road accident 
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Dan B
Member
Registered: 25th Feb 01
User status: Offline
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http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/17.shtml#160
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
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Cheers!
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Mase
Premium Member
Registered: 16th Sep 01
Location: Derbyshire
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i'm scanning as i speak !!!
Mase
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Mase
Premium Member
Registered: 16th Sep 01
Location: Derbyshire
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bugger u beat me 2 it !!
Mase
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Dan B
Member
Registered: 25th Feb 01
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Heheh, can't beat the internet! 
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
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OK, next one, which law says you can't overtake on the inside.
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willay
Moderator
Organiser: South East, National Events
Premium Member
Registered: 10th Nov 02
Location: Roydon, Essex
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan B
Heheh, can't beat the internet!
tell me about it, the last level is bloody hard to beat 
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Drew
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Registered: 24th Nov 01
Location: County Durham
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
OK, next one, which law says you can't overtake on the inside.
when you are in queues of traffic
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Drew
Banned
Registered: 24th Nov 01
Location: County Durham
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oops - i read that as 'CAN overtake' 
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cobra148
Member
Registered: 27th Oct 01
Location: Here in front of my monitor.....
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
OK, next one, which law says you can't overtake on the inside.
You can't overtake on the inside, this is known as "undertaking". Should only be done as Drew says, if your in slow moving queues of traffic and your queue is moving faster than the one on your right.
You can also pass on the left if the vehicle in front is turning right, and theres enough room for you to safely pass.
You've not been hit on your driver side by someone exiting a roundabout have you?
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
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quote:
Originally posted by cobra148
You've not been hit on your driver side by someone exiting a roundabout have you?
Not me, my brother two years ago and its still ongoing. I'm familiar with the general rules but I didn't have anything specific and authorititive to quote from.
The other guy will get a shock anyway, I'm up to 800 words already and I've only just finished countering 2 of his 8 points. 
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TRL
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Registered: 24th Mar 01
Location: planet tharg
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I think in a lot of instances the insurance companies go 50/50 on roundabout 'accidents' like this, because if both drivers had been observant it wouldn't have happenned at all.
Tony
[Edited on 18-01-2004 by TRL]
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
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The main thing in my brother defence is that the guy turning off crossed his path to leave and thats where the collision took place. Plus he was going left and joined it in the outside lane. Its not the first exit so its not cut and dried but I'm not convinced about his choice of lane!
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cobra148
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Registered: 27th Oct 01
Location: Here in front of my monitor.....
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I had a similar thing at our local motorway junction. I came down the slip road and the left lane is for going left or straight on, its all clearly marked with arrows on the road. The right lane is also for going straight on. I was in the left lane about to go straight on when a guy in the right lane cut straight into the side of me hitting my car and forcing me onto the hard shoulder. As TRL says, insurance co's usually go for 50/50 in roundabout prangs.
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
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They're the exact same road markings!
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cobra148
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Registered: 27th Oct 01
Location: Here in front of my monitor.....
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So your bro in law was in the left lane when a guy on his right cut across into him as he attempted to leave the roundabout?
Sounds like he could have realised he was going to miss his exit and cut across the lanes. Looking at it that way, then it would appear that he is at fault.
Does your bro in law have any independant witnesses, if he does then it looks good in his favour, if not, then they may well call it 50/50.
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
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No witnesses at all, thats why it's been ongoing for some time. The guy has a half baked case of my bro speeding past him on the inside but most of his statement is subjective and he's made fundemental errors in lane choice and the fact he admitted to seeing no vehicles being there.
I'd have said it was there going too fast, not I missed it totally!
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cobra148
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Registered: 27th Oct 01
Location: Here in front of my monitor.....
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It looks to me that they'll call it 50/50, your bro in laws insurance saying the other guy cut across the lanes ( could be driving without due care and attention), and the other guys insurance is going to say your bro in law was passing n the inside. Good luck contending it, but its one of those grey area cases.
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el gordo
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Registered: 21st Dec 03
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
OK, next one, which law says you can't overtake on the inside.
the only specific legislation that covers overtaking on the inside is Section 28 of the Town Police Clauses Act 1847!
Section 28 of the Town Police Clauses Act 1847 provides, amongst other things, that 'Every person in charge of any waggon, cart, or carriage, who does not, when passing another carriage, keep his own vehicle to the right or off side' is guilty of an offence for which, believe it or not, the penalty is 14 days imprisonment!
The offence has to be committed to the 'obstruction, annoyance, or danger of residents or passengers' so it is unlikely that proceedings would be instigated under this legislation except on the complaint of a third person, possibly the person 'undertaken', although there would seem to be no reason in law why a police officer who witnessed such an offence could not him/herself be 'annoyed' by it. And, although you might think that reference in this Act to 'wagons, carts and carriages' couldn't possibly have any relevance to today's high speed roads, you might be surprised to learn that, by virtue of Section 191 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, 'a motor vehicle is a carriage', so that section 28 could be utilised to deal with the comparatively modern practise of 'undertaking' on motorways. It has to be said, though, that prosecutions under this particular legislation are, to put it mildly, 'rare'. The main drawback and, hence, why the legislation is now little used is that offences under this act are not endorsable. Hardly surprising when you consider that the Act was passed fully fifty years before the first motor car was seen on the roads and and nearer one hundred years before driving licences were introduced, let alone the concept of 'penalty points'.
here ian - i thought you were a copper? thats twice I've pointed chapter and verse for ya now 
[Edited on 19-01-2004 by el gordo]
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el gordo
Member
Registered: 21st Dec 03
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by cobra148
quote:
Originally posted by Ian
OK, next one, which law says you can't overtake on the inside.
You can't overtake on the inside, this is known as "undertaking". Should only be done as Drew says, if your in slow moving queues of traffic and your queue is moving faster than the one on your right.
You can also pass on the left if the vehicle in front is turning right, and theres enough room for you to safely pass.
You've not been hit on your driver side by someone exiting a roundabout have you?
depends on the constabulary.
i have an e-mail from south yorkshire police saying it's fine so long as it's reasonable and safe to execute the manouver without causing concern or distress, though it's up to the discretion of the officer in question.
I also have an e-mail from Derbyshire quoting about 8 laws they can do you with and are happy to do so rather than exercising some discretion and individual thought.
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el gordo
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Registered: 21st Dec 03
User status: Offline
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i had a good prang on a roundabout almost a year ago to the day - 4th or 5th jan i think it was... (funnily enough, I hit a Corsa! scouse bloke visiting his nottingham girlfriend).
me turning right, already on it (big roundabout). Traffic waiting to emerge from 2nd exit as I go round to 3rd, signal flashing away, 2 cars decide to nail it and go in front of me so I lift off, but the one nearest me bottled it and braked... leaving me 1 car length at 30mph on a damp recently-gritted roundabout to stop... CRUNCH!!!
Off we pull, exchange details, and fortunately I had the forethought to go back half an hour later and take photos from a dozen angles, showing the debris...
All going smooth for a week then I get a solicitors letter saying the scouse twat is gonna sue for losses, lost earnings, personal injury and other things... unfortunately he'd neglected to remember he breached a give-way line, entered a roundabout in front of traffic moving from his right (to which you always give way) and stopped in the path of another vehicle so causing an accident.
turns out his legal protection and insurance co didn't even know he'd instructed solicitors and had agreed with my company (the pru, top notch these guys) that the knobber in the corsa was completely at fault, settled the claim and repaid my excess to me
The pru just told me to post them the threatening letters from his lawyers and they'd sort it.
i got an apology from the solicitor shortly after confirming there was no case to answer
result!
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TRL
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Registered: 24th Mar 01
Location: planet tharg
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Nice report there gordo!
If only it always came out the reight way.
A cheap digi cam is a good thing to carry in the glove box!
Tony
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el gordo
Member
Registered: 21st Dec 03
User status: Offline
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very true.
or camera phone these days (no good at night mind).
just beware taking flash photography near traffic of course
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Leighton
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Registered: 21st Feb 01
Location: Liverpool
User status: Offline
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Were was it Ian ????
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