Paul_J
Member
Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline
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My Court Summons has finally appeared. 25th of May.
The Police Statement reads as follows:
At 14.10 hrs on Saturday the 12th of Feb 2005, I was on duty, in uniform, at M23 between junctions 10 Crawley and 9 Gatwick in the County of West Sussex. I was accompanied by PC CA227 Aldous.
We were mobile in a unmarked police vehicle, fleet number 841 call sign HT683 on M23 at Crawley in the County of West Sussex, checking the speed of vechicles being driven towards London with a Police Pilot speed detection device which was fitted in our vehicle.
I saw a motor car registration number S250 EBN travelling at a speed which I estimated to be in excess of the 70 mph speed limit for that road as it came up behind us. I check the speed of the vehicle and found it to be 101.49 MPH . The first reference point was a side by side to police vehicle, the second was a shadow cast by junction 10 motorway bridge, during a follow check over a distance of 0.658 miles. That speed was locked into the instrument display.
The vehicle was stopped and I spoke to the driver, a person I now know to be Mr Paul Thomas Joslin born 22/01/85 of Rogers Lane, Stoke Poges, Slough, Berkshire.
I said "The speed on the M23 is 70 m.p.h. Your speed has been checked by a speed meter and found to be 101.49 mph. You will be reported for the consideration of the question of prosecuting you with this offence". I cautioned him and he made no immediate reply.
The vehicle was not displaying 'L' plates and was not towing a trailer. The vehicle was not a goods vehicle. The driver was given the opportunity to view the speed recorded and did so. The traffic conditions were light and the weather conditions were fine and dry. Visibilty was good.
I am trained in the use and procedures of the Police Pilot speed detection device. The pilot device was calibrated on 6th Feb 2005 by PC Kelly and found to be correct.
Doh. The weird thing is they never showed me any thing in the car, the people at the meet I was speeding to will tell you I said I never saw anything. Basically he got me to get out of my car, I walked over to him - he cautioned me, asked for my license, I got it and he told me to sit back in my car.
He then came up to my car and sat in the passenger seat giving me a lecture on road safety and going 'whats this then?' pointing at my road angel.
I did want to see the evidence - but got no option to at the time. Can I ask to see it now? Do I say that I was never shown it (making his statement false) - or do I just bite the bullet
Does anyone know what I should write in my statement in my defence? I know some people write they need their car for work - Well 25th of May is dead in the center of my exams - if I get banned it truely will make it a bitch to get to my exams etc.
Basically I'm not trying to wriggle out of a punishment, but I'd far prefere 6 points than a ban (even if it is only a 28 day ban - as insurance would be through the roof)...
Really gutted, but is my own fault - ever since getting stopped for speeding I rarely go over 85 mph
Paul J
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John
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 03
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul_J
Really gutted, but is my own fault - ever since getting stopped for speeding I rarely go over 85 mph
Paul J
You've learned nothing from getting done then.
You still speed 
Not saying I don't but I haven't been done yet.
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Dom
Member
Registered: 13th Sep 03
User status: Offline
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print off the report of the copper doing 159mph for "testing" perposes, and say you were just doing the same "to get a feel for the car" 
seriously though, if you do chavy things and wheel spin at meets, it sounds like you need abit of a slapping 
I would just bite the bullet, get a spanking and learn the lesson the hard way 
[Edited on 13-05-2005 by Dom]
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3CorsaMeal
Member
Registered: 11th Apr 02
User status: Offline
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i go flat out along m11 from m25 all the way home -stansted, not been caught 
ask for a rematch
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3CorsaMeal
Member
Registered: 11th Apr 02
User status: Offline
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sue the car company for producing cars that break the law
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Dom
Member
Registered: 13th Sep 03
User status: Offline
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sue Road Angel for not producing something that detects speed cameras
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Paul_J
Member
Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Dom
print off the report of the copper doing 159mph for "testing" perposes, and say you were just doing the same "to get a feel for the car"
seriously though, if you do chavy things and wheel spin at meets, it sounds like you need abit of a slapping
I would just bite the bullet, get a spanking and learn the lesson the hard way
[Edited on 13-05-2005 by Dom]
I moved the post to GC instead of Offday because I thought I'd get better comments. Mate most of 'What I do' isn't what I do at all, it's merely people writing crap on here 'joking' and then other people believing it and repeating it.
For example the whole 'You were trying to RACE AN EVO!' - I never claimed to race an evo, but because someone said I was - someone repeated then everyone believed it.
At that meet we were there and loads of chavs kept going past - we were standing there joking about them, FATF quotes etc... Adam was taking pics of our cars doing drive bys - so as a joke in relation to that I 'wheel span'. It wasn't a burnout - it was just a bit of wheel spin.
But once again, it got posted on the board that I was wheel spinning everywhere and people believed it. P4UL wasn't even there!
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Siberia
Member
Registered: 9th Oct 03
Location: Leprechaun Land Drives : Zafira GSI
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by 3CorsaMeal
sue the car company for producing cars that break the law
this would probably work in america....
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Pablo
Member
Registered: 3rd Feb 03
Location: Milton Keynes
User status: Offline
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or u could delete my comments LOL
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bradfincham
Member
Registered: 20th Sep 02
Location: East Of England Drives: Clio 172
User status: Offline
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i would suggest getting someone to write you a letter, saying you need the car.
Then say you will attend police driving experience and accept a 6 point fine.
Say the conditions were good and you was follish at the time of the incident.
Then say that you never saw the evidence, this wont go agaisnt you.
If daimo can get caught way over 100 and get 6 points im sure you can too,
Hope you dont get a ban mate and all sorts!!
My mate had 2 pints of stella in a pub and drove home. he was 1 point over the limit and he got banned for a yera with £800 fine which i find hard as he is an advanced motorist all sorts. And someone i know drove with no tax, mot, insurance or a test and had to pay £300 court fees thats it!!
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Rebrabuk
Member
Registered: 28th Mar 04
Location: North East
User status: Offline
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To see the evidence you'd have to plead not guilty.
Based on what you've said, i'd go not guilty.
Call the officer up as a witness to give evidence. Ask him if he showed you the video at the scene - if he says he did, then hopefully you can convince the magistrates that he didn't in which case he will be committing perjury. If he tells the truth and says that he didn't show you it, then his statement will lose all credibility and you'd most likely walk away with a victory under your belt.
Also the CPS may 'negotiate' with you regarding your plea. Tell them if they drop the speed to below 100, you'll change plea to guilty (receive 5 points rather than 6?).
If you go guilty from the start, i think you'd only get 6 points anyway to be honest.
Good luck.
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Paul_J
Member
Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by bradfincham
i would suggest getting someone to write you a letter, saying you need the car.
Then say you will attend police driving experience and accept a 6 point fine.
Say the conditions were good and you was follish at the time of the incident.
Then say that you never saw the evidence, this wont go agaisnt you.
If daimo can get caught way over 100 and get 6 points im sure you can too,
Hope you dont get a ban mate and all sorts!!
My mate had 2 pints of stella in a pub and drove home. he was 1 point over the limit and he got banned for a yera with £800 fine which i find hard as he is an advanced motorist all sorts. And someone i know drove with no tax, mot, insurance or a test and had to pay £300 court fees thats it!!
Cheers brad, do you know what area's do the driving experience thing? this was Sussex / Middlesex. I would hapily do a course - I may even learn something from it.
In most similar cases I've noticed people can get 6 points with a much larger fine - but in this case, I'm a student so my financial status will not allow me to have a large fine.
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bradfincham
Member
Registered: 20th Sep 02
Location: East Of England Drives: Clio 172
User status: Offline
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Just say you was foolish and would like to take part in a better driver scheme such as police training days, essex do a few!
This will help as you can say you was silly and accept that but please dont smack my arse too hard and let me off with points and il be a good boy from now on.
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Rebrabuk
Member
Registered: 28th Mar 04
Location: North East
User status: Offline
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You only get offered the driving experience courses for doing 1 or 2mph over the 'threshold'..
You were about 25mph over the 'threshold'..
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Paul_J
Member
Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Rebrabuk
To see the evidence you'd have to plead not guilty.
Based on what you've said, i'd go not guilty.
Call the officer up as a witness to give evidence. Ask him if he showed you the video at the scene - if he says he did, then hopefully you can convince the magistrates that he didn't in which case he will be committing perjury. If he tells the truth and says that he didn't show you it, then his statement will lose all credibility and you'd most likely walk away with a victory under your belt.
Also the CPS may 'negotiate' with you regarding your plea. Tell them if they drop the speed to below 100, you'll change plea to guilty (receive 5 points rather than 6?).
If you go guilty from the start, i think you'd only get 6 points anyway to be honest.
Good luck.
Hmm - I know you've had a similar experience recently. To be honest though, how do you convince a court that 2 police officers are wrong - if they're both saying I saw it. For example say I had seen it, but decided to claim I hadn't - the court don't know either way. I can't imagine that.
I know what you mean about pleading not guilty - but I am Guilty, I know I'm guilty and I just want this over with. It's been on my mind for the last 4 months, plus fighting it would need legal backing I think - which I can't afford.
Who reads out the statement I write - do I? or does someone else? What do I do in court? Just stand there and listen?
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3CorsaMeal
Member
Registered: 11th Apr 02
User status: Offline
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write at letter saying that u could be out happy slapping people and don't see how your actions are using up more police time, turning innocents people into law hating citizens
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PaulW
Member
Registered: 26th Jan 03
Location: Atherton, Greater Manchester
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul_J
quote:
Originally posted by bradfincham
i would suggest getting someone to write you a letter, saying you need the car.
Then say you will attend police driving experience and accept a 6 point fine.
Say the conditions were good and you was follish at the time of the incident.
Then say that you never saw the evidence, this wont go agaisnt you.
If daimo can get caught way over 100 and get 6 points im sure you can too,
Hope you dont get a ban mate and all sorts!!
My mate had 2 pints of stella in a pub and drove home. he was 1 point over the limit and he got banned for a yera with £800 fine which i find hard as he is an advanced motorist all sorts. And someone i know drove with no tax, mot, insurance or a test and had to pay £300 court fees thats it!!
Cheers brad, do you know what area's do the driving experience thing? this was Sussex / Middlesex. I would hapily do a course - I may even learn something from it.
In most similar cases I've noticed people can get 6 points with a much larger fine - but in this case, I'm a student so my financial status will not allow me to have a large fine.
do unmarked cars also have in-car camera's and such like in marked volvo t5's?? just if it does, and you do say you never saw the tape, yet they say you did, it might be worth seeing if they do have camera's inside the car etc...
just an idea...
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3CorsaMeal
Member
Registered: 11th Apr 02
User status: Offline
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can't belive the limit is 70mph
cars are fast changing, maybe that was unsafe speed 10-20yrs ago, but nowadays most 1.0ltr cars will reach that speed
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pab
Member
Registered: 16th Jun 04
Location: Wakefield
User status: Offline
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i got pulled last night, the copper said i was speeding but he didn't even have a radar thing or owt, he just said he could tell i was doing over 30, but i know i wasn't cause i saw the police car a few cars behind me. He said he's given me 3 points, a producer and this order thing that means if i get court doing anything wrong (speeding etc) within the next year they take my car off me!!
Can he do that if he has no proof i was speeding? (which i wasn't anyway)
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kevino
Member
Registered: 24th Nov 04
User status: Offline
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Drive at 100mph & thats what you get.
You know the speed limit is 70. You chose to break it. Tough luck !
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Paul_J
Member
Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulW
quote:
Originally posted by Paul_J
quote:
Originally posted by bradfincham
i would suggest getting someone to write you a letter, saying you need the car.
Then say you will attend police driving experience and accept a 6 point fine.
Say the conditions were good and you was follish at the time of the incident.
Then say that you never saw the evidence, this wont go agaisnt you.
If daimo can get caught way over 100 and get 6 points im sure you can too,
Hope you dont get a ban mate and all sorts!!
My mate had 2 pints of stella in a pub and drove home. he was 1 point over the limit and he got banned for a yera with £800 fine which i find hard as he is an advanced motorist all sorts. And someone i know drove with no tax, mot, insurance or a test and had to pay £300 court fees thats it!!
Cheers brad, do you know what area's do the driving experience thing? this was Sussex / Middlesex. I would hapily do a course - I may even learn something from it.
In most similar cases I've noticed people can get 6 points with a much larger fine - but in this case, I'm a student so my financial status will not allow me to have a large fine.
do unmarked cars also have in-car camera's and such like in marked volvo t5's?? just if it does, and you do say you never saw the tape, yet they say you did, it might be worth seeing if they do have camera's inside the car etc...
just an idea...
That's a very interesting point. Gutted if due to shock I had a memory blank and there'll be a video of me sitting there staring into space in the back of a Evo hahah! - But I definately didn't sit in their car - Just random, as I don't remember being shown any evidence. Such a long time ago now it's just a blur.
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Rebrabuk
Member
Registered: 28th Mar 04
Location: North East
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul_J
To be honest though, how do you convince a court that 2 police officers are wrong - if they're both saying I saw it. For example say I had seen it, but decided to claim I hadn't - the court don't know either way. I can't imagine that.
They will always believe the police officers unless you can think of some way of proving them wrong.. 
quote:
Originally posted by Paul_J
I know what you mean about pleading not guilty - but I am Guilty, I know I'm guilty and I just want this over with. It's been on my mind for the last 4 months, plus fighting it would need legal backing I think - which I can't afford.
But can you be sure that you are guilty of what they say you are guilty of? Is there not a possibility that you could've been doing 99.981mph rather than 101mph? I don't trust those camera systems that they've used to record your speed because if the officer is 0.5 seconds late in pressing the magic button, you'll have a far greater speed recorded. It's possibly a bit late to start researching now, but if you had of put some effort into researching a bit earlier, you may have been able to defend yourself without the need for legal backing.
Been doing my research and i think i stand a 50/50 chance of getting off with mine on technicalities. But i'm in same situation that i can't afford legal representation and not the greatest public speaker so would mess things up. Despite knowing what i know, i'll probanly go guilty aswell.
quote:
Originally posted by Paul_J
Who reads out the statement I write - do I? or does someone else? What do I do in court? Just stand there and listen?
Not too sure about the court room procedure, but i think you write your mitigation in a letter and have it read out by the clerk of the court. If your pleading guilty, i don't think you'd have to say anything at all. If you go not guilty, you'll have an awful lot of talking to do..
I'm going to watch a few speeding trials at my local court soon to get a 'feel for things'. Should do the same...
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Paul_J
Member
Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline
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ooh - can you just walk in?
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Rebrabuk
Member
Registered: 28th Mar 04
Location: North East
User status: Offline
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Yup. Ring up your local magistrates court and ask what days are allocated for motoring offences. 9 times out of 10 they'll be very happy to help you and tell you what you want to know. Then just walk in on the day and sit quietly at the back of the court room (or so i've been told)... 
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Dom
Member
Registered: 13th Sep 03
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by pab
i got pulled last night, the copper said i was speeding but he didn't even have a radar thing or owt, he just said he could tell i was doing over 30, but i know i wasn't cause i saw the police car a few cars behind me. He said he's given me 3 points, a producer and this order thing that means if i get court doing anything wrong (speeding etc) within the next year they take my car off me!!
Can he do that if he has no proof i was speeding? (which i wasn't anyway)
there isnt any evidence, so its his word against yours - it wouldnt even stand in court.
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