Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Offline
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Just got in from a day out with Matt and willay presenting our application to join VBOA. Unfortunately, we were not accepted today. The feedback was positive about the good work which we are currently doing, but this unfortunately does not fit within the VBOA framework for a number of reasons, which they have asked us to address and re-present in February.
The major thing which we need to fix is that our definition of ‘membership’ differs wildly from that of the VBOA, who have a far more classical approach. The panel didn’t like the fact that a membership of 21000 people were not actually all officially ‘club’ members owing to the fact that we don’t have information like postal address on record as policy. This of course is done ad-hoc at shows, where addresses are taken in order to dispatch tickets, which the panel appreciated.
They suggested that we should implement a ‘proper’ membership system in which we acquire a database of paid members, whose name and addresses we hold, and to whom we exclusively allow the opportunity to buy tickets, amongst the other benefits. My first feeling on this approach is that anyone who wants to show with us in the forthcoming year, who is currently expecting buy a show pass at one particular price, would be forced to sign up, probably for Prem, at which time they would then be entitled to show. It would however have cost them not only the ticket price but also the membership price. I wasn’t particularly comfortable with this given that it increases the overall cost to show for a large proportion of members, and that a side-effect of this would be that we would see less people able to join us.
This begs the question of whether we should force members to become Prem at all, or perhaps whether we have another class of user who pays to be entitled to show. Personally, I don’t want another class of user. This adds complexity to our systems, confuses the users and adds barriers to entry for the stands. Plus it’s expensive for the user. Again, not necessary.
This got me thinking whether or not we could simply validate existing members, so that they had all the necessary information stored and were more ‘official’, but this was done within the existing structure of member classes – ie. You’re just a validated regular member rather than any special additional title.. This would satisfy the criteria of having more substantial member records. You can be regular member if you wish, or Premium Member if you wish, but if you want to show you need to be validated, ie. We need to have your proper name and address on record as if you were a ‘club’ member.
It still wouldn’t be a proper club – you still haven’t paid to be a member. Data wise its right, but I’m not sure how well this would go down with the panel. I know a few other clubs were keen for us to put a membership fee in there. Quite why I’m not sure. There is no direct cost to us associated with holding names and addresses alongside existing details like email address, location and everything else in your profile. Well, actually there is if you think of it in terms of zeros and ones on a hard drive, but its so negligibly small in the grand scheme of things it would cost more to collect the money than it would to spend it on storage.
Matt, Will and I discussed this at length after the meeting and we’ve still some work to do, so while this thread serves as a general update to our position I would also appreciate some feedback on what members think should be the direction which we go in.
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Graeme
Premium Member
Registered: 26th Jul 04
Location: Northampton
User status: Offline
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seems a lot of hassle for is it just 1 extra show or is there more to it than that?
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Offline
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The show is the main reason to do it, plus its nice to be officially recognised.
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stevegreetham
Member
Registered: 30th Oct 03
Location: Grimsby/Sheffield
User status: Offline
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At least they gave you hints and tips mate 
IMO everyone should be preem...i think
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jamesvalver
Member
Registered: 21st Feb 03
Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
User status: Offline
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im confused as to why they think that you have to pay to be a member of a club. you can either be a member or a premium member, both of which is being a member of the corsasport club.some ppl are willing to pay for premium membershjp and some arnt, but that doesnt meen that they should be penalised for not paying.
what other criterias did we miss out on?
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Robin
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Jan 04
Location: Northants Drives: Clio 182 Cup
User status: Offline
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So to get into the VBOA, EVERYONE has to be a paying member? Or just everyone needs to have a postal address by their name?
Seems a bit pointless really, it's not worth it just for the Billing show IMO.
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Ste L
Member
Registered: 3rd Jul 06
Location: Manchester Drives: 106 16v Rallye
User status: Offline
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VBOA's more than just billing, have shows over europe too
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Robin
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Jan 04
Location: Northants Drives: Clio 182 Cup
User status: Offline
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yeah, but no-one would be arsed going to belgium or wherever
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corb
Member
Registered: 24th Apr 02
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
User status: Online
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Granted, we all want to see a Corsasport stand at Billing next year, and each year after that, but I personally dont think we should let them control how OUR club is run.
Unfortuantely, beyond what has already been mentioned, I have no solution or ideas at the moment! But those are my feelings and thoughts having just read your post Ian.
Sorry to be of no help!
[Edited on 10-12-2006 by corb]
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Offline
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I think there are people who would go to Europe if it was done properly.
To be honest I'm not clear myself on whether people need to pay to show. That to me is just a tax on wanting to do something. Ticket price fair enough, pay that to Santa Pod or whereever. We don't need money for that.
I need to come up with something and run it back by them, hence February. In the mean time we're going to strengthen up the existing procedures anyway for this year, regardless of the application. If that makes us more official, so be it.
I'm not actually that keen to change what has been a fairly successful formula so far just to do this, but if we can improve and they like it then we might be able to do something.
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Mase
Premium Member
Registered: 16th Sep 01
Location: Derbyshire
User status: Offline
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I can understand the collecting of names and addresses, as this makes the user more 'human' than just a username on a forum if you get what I mean and I expect they want paying members as it shows a commitment by the member towards the 'club'.
However I don't think that sort of approach would work, as at the moment people are willing to become members and get tickets as and when, but like you have said, i'm not sure they would be willing to pay the full 12.50 unless a lower grade of membership was bought in which offered show access and some extras, such as a restricted garage etc.
Mase
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Jules S
Premium Member
Registered: 24th Dec 03
User status: Offline
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Seems a tad old fashioned to me.
This is primarily an 'on-line' club so what is the desperate need for home addresses?
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Colin
Member
Registered: 4th Apr 02
User status: Offline
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Surely everyones a member whether they contribute to the site or not 
Send round a memo to everyone explaining the need for members details etc & remove those that dont comply
[Edited on 10-12-2006 by Colin]
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corb
Member
Registered: 24th Apr 02
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
User status: Online
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Jules, do you live in a cardboard box under a bridge? Dont be ashamed to give your address out, some dont have a bridge for shelter, just the box!!!
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jr
Member
Registered: 20th May 02
Location: Kent
User status: Offline
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Right, im not so sure i understand there view (it may be me)
what is the diffrence between a prem member and waht they see as a member first of
as we dont have or need a newsletter because of the physicall sunday meets we have to welcome members and update etc why is there a requirement for peoples name and adresses to be held, that IMO isnt any diffrent to people paying £12.50 to become a member
the only way i can see us collating that info is when prem is sighed up for, or renew'd is pre defined fields for that info to be collected, but still no advantage to anyone
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Robin
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Jan 04
Location: Northants Drives: Clio 182 Cup
User status: Offline
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I think having everyones address on record is a good idea anyway.
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Liam
Member
Registered: 19th Jan 06
Location: Stafford
User status: Offline
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I think that collecting home addresses is a good idea, it would help cut down on scams (possibly) if people were to give there home address, number etc. And im sure people wouldn't mind giving out the details, so long as they are kept private, and only admins can access it etc.
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Colin
Member
Registered: 4th Apr 02
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Robin
I think having everyones address on record is a good idea anyway.
Would be easier for Ian when sending out the membership freebies  
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jr
Member
Registered: 20th May 02
Location: Kent
User status: Offline
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but i dont see how that info makes someone a member
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MikeD
Member
Registered: 18th Aug 02
Location: Whittlesey, Cambridgeshire
User status: Offline
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This is just an Idea might work but also might not.
How about doing a deal with splatgraphix where you offer new members corsasport Car Stickers (can be other companies or items) they would pay through corsasport and also you would get Postal details.
Would that get round them having to pay for a membership you just state its a one off payment??? or maybe add a couple of quid to the total cost and say thats the membership fee and payment for a welcome pack (again getting postal address????)
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Robin
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Jan 04
Location: Northants Drives: Clio 182 Cup
User status: Offline
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Me neither, I was just saying it would make sense anyway.
It would be almost impossible for us to be a non-web club, as we'd have to have some sort of system of letting people know when meets are, without them having internet access 
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Colin
Member
Registered: 4th Apr 02
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Liam
I think that collecting home addresses is a good idea, it would help cut down on scams (possibly) if people were to give there home address, number etc. And im sure people wouldn't mind giving out the details, so long as they are kept private, and only admins can access it etc.
Yes your right - although in saying that how many 'new' members would feel comfertable giving out their address to an unknown site of unknown operators, might come accross dodgy - they know your car....they know you address 
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IvIarkgraham
Premium Member
Registered: 27th Mar 04
Location: Ellesmere Port, Cheshire
User status: Offline
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so VBOA would corsa sport be an official owners club?
dont you get cheaper insurance if your part of an official owners club?
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Jules S
Premium Member
Registered: 24th Dec 03
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by corb
Jules, do you live in a cardboard box under a bridge? Dont be ashamed to give your address out, some dont have a bridge for shelter, just the box!!!
Thats not really my point
I was in car 'clubs' prior to the WWW....sure we had newsletters/fliers etc posted to our home addresses.....
These days its done by global e-mails and websites.
When was the last time you applied for a ticket to anything via a letter and the royal mail?
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Robin
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Jan 04
Location: Northants Drives: Clio 182 Cup
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Colin
quote:
Originally posted by Liam
I think that collecting home addresses is a good idea, it would help cut down on scams (possibly) if people were to give there home address, number etc. And im sure people wouldn't mind giving out the details, so long as they are kept private, and only admins can access it etc.
Yes your right - although in saying that how many 'new' members would feel comfertable giving out their address to an unknown site of unknown operators, might come accross dodgy - they know your car....they know you address
you have to do that to be a vxscc member, and when you join, their staff are unknown quantities.
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