Warren G
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Registered: 14th May 06
Location: Kent
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what the best set up
front camber?
tracking?
caster?
running about 1 degree negative atm (close as i can get to standard with camber bolts)
tracking - 0 degrees or is set to toe in abit a good idea?
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AK
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Registered: 5th Jul 00
Location: Aberdeen City
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its all up to you....
neg camber is the right way, but just try things (settings) to see what you, personally, prefer.
Maybe a touch of toe in too.
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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toe out at front would be better than toe in... (i.e. tip of front wheel closest to front, slightly point outwards, bit of front wheel towards back of the car slightly point inwards).
more neg camber on front = better grip while cornering, but can wear your inside of your tyres a lot quicker / less contact area when braking. So best to not run too wild neg camber.
but more caster = more camber when turning = better than too much negative camber all the time.
[Edited on 30-03-2008 by Paul_J]
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Paul_J
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So for toe mentioned above (toe out) wheels would be
front
\.../
|...|
rear
Obviously not to that extreme 
106 gti  for example standard has...
1 degree neg camber either side
slight toe out on the front wheels
and quite a lot of caster
more neg camber on the rear = more stable cornering (but possible understeer)... less will = looser rear end (more oversteery  ).
[Edited on 30-03-2008 by Paul_J]
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tom_simes
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Location: Undy, Newport Drives: Skoda Octavia vRS estate
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Doesn't toe out just mean more high speed stability though, but less turn in?
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Paul_J
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quote:
Originally posted by tom_simes
Doesn't toe out just mean more high speed stability though, but less turn in?
Toe out on the front \ / < like that will give more turn in. but what they're calling toe in, may be what I'm calling toe out
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Dan295
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Registered: 9th Oct 06
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whoa whoa whoa, toe in on the front on a FWD car
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tom_simes
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Just looked here Paul, and it confirms what you said, I always thought it was the opposite but obviously not!
http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html
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Robin
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Registered: 7th Jan 04
Location: Northants Drives: Clio 182 Cup
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Toe in = front of the wheels pointing in
Toe out = front of the wheels pointing out
Toe in makes the car more stable, but it won't turn in as well
Toe out does the opposite.
A little toe out, a little negative camber front and rear, and a little positive castor (leaning back at the top, like most RWD cars) is basically what you need to aim for.
The exact figures are impossible to say as what feels right for me could feel like shit for you, but they're the ideal things you want.
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Robin
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Registered: 7th Jan 04
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan295
whoa whoa whoa, toe in on the front on a FWD car
Why?
Totally depends on what you're setting the car up for, on the road, yes, you want more stability, but for a car which is agile on a track, you need it to be "unstable"
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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perhaps he likes understeering everywhere robin?
I always get worried when i get my tracking checked they'll put my wheels straight and not slightly toed out.
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Robin
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To be honest, the only way to do it by trial and error, and to get it perfect, you need to change it for EVERY track.
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Dan295
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but surely warren drives his car on the road, unless eating through tyres is his game surely he want to be toeing in, after all having a lot of understeer is better than having a lot of oversteer
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan295
but surely warren drives his car on the road, unless eating through tyres is his game surely he want to be toeing in, after all having a lot of understeer is better than having a lot of oversteer
Firstly, it's negative camber that will eat up his tyres, not toe... and that's only if it's excessive, 1-1.5 degree neg camber will be fine with no real major effects on wear.
Toeing in and toeing out will probably have the same effect on tyre wear as each other, as both are adding slight drag (not rolling straight forward)... however the toe in / out is only minor like 0.1 / 0.2 degrees so it's not much of a problem.
Finally, if he's going through the hassle of setting his car's geometry up, I think he'll want to make it better (turn in / oversteer) rather than (wash out / understeer) on every bend!
I'd take an oversteery car ANY day over a understeering car. An oversteery car can allow you to control it easier, where as an understeering car will end up in a hedge.
Finally........ When we say 'making it oversteery' - it's not literally gonna spin off every time he turns the corner, it'll just make the car want to turn in, rather than want to go straight, when you turn the steering wheel. For road use I'd suggest a balance of slight oversteer. That way it'll hold it's line, if the car understeers you can get the front round using a bit of lift off oversteer, if it oversteers, you can just control it to stop it spinning out.
[Edited on 30-03-2008 by Paul_J]
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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oh and finally...
If he wants a car that can turn in but remain stable (if it was too oversteery) - I'd suggest more rear neg camber / rear wheels slightly toed in to resolve it. but to be honest, i don't see it being a problem as the corsa is a naturally understeery car, so making it turn in better / more oversteer will be a definate improvement.
End of the day, you want the front to be gripping and turning in the best it can, never understeering... Toe in on front will = less turn in...
[Edited on 30-03-2008 by Paul_J]
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EwertonGSi
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Registered: 20th Mar 08
Location: Brazil, Vix-ES
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Anyone of you have a tyre pyrometer? Itīs the best way to confirm the camber setup.
And as Robin said, there isnīt a best setup for all situations and all drivers.
More camber is needed when the car is rolling a lot. So if you got good coilovers, low and light car, just a bit of neg camber is necessary. But some tracks require more grip and so you have to soften the springs. And then more neg camber you will need due more rolling.
For first I'd try to install an arb on the rear.
[Edited on 31-03-2008 by EwertonGSi]
[Edited on 31-03-2008 by EwertonGSi]
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broster
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Paul, it is actually toe which eats tyres, not camber
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Steve X16XE
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Registered: 31st Dec 06
Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire
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quote:
Originally posted by broster
Paul, it is actually toe which eats tyres, not camber
I was just thinking that.
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Warren G
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Registered: 14th May 06
Location: Kent
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well i need more caster then
as when tuning in, looks like the camber is postive
will set the wheels to toe out slightly then, aprox one degree
rear arn't adjusterable, but think there about .5 degree camber (neg)
fronts are set up approx about .5 degrees aswell (neg)
cars bent, so having the n/s pulled forward as its about 15-20mm back 
doesnt handle anywhere as near as my old one did, but since i fitted the diff it im proved, but just doesnt feel as stanble, and still understeers, unlike the green one - wet road + roundabouts = spin  but fanstactic in the dry
gonna ad some more camber, and lower front anyother 20mm at front
but i think its the caster thats letting me down, might get some top mounts 
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jr
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Registered: 20th May 02
Location: Kent
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when i have 30 mins i'll write down my guide for set up 
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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as someone said, I'd probably just start by putting on a really stiff rear ARB.
makes a big difference on gti's When my rear ARB wasn't attached it understeered everywhere, as soon as my 24mm ARB was reattached it turned in a lot better.
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EwertonGSi
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Registered: 20th Mar 08
Location: Brazil, Vix-ES
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quote:
Originally posted by warren.g
gonna ad some more camber, and lower front anyother 20mm at front
You can possibly get nowhere with this mod. Lowering the front reduces body roll and then less camber you will need. Just lower the front n see how it does. Next step is stiff rear springs or arb.
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Dave A
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rear spring choice can affect handling massively. stiffer rears cause oversteer, When mine had the rear coilovers on with 200lb springs it drove like a rwd car. made it a lot more fun but was a bit unstable. changed to 160lb springs and it felt much better but not very well balanced.
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Mattb
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Registered: 2nd Feb 03
Location: Under your sisters bed
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quote:
Originally posted by broster
Paul, it is actually toe which eats tyres, not camber
Both excessive toe and camber will wear tyres quickly to be fair,
excessive toe will scrub the tyres out due to the tyres effectivly being dragged down the road.
excessive camber will wear the tyres heavily also. mainly due to the fact the tyres will run hotter on one edge due to the reduced contact area and increased load on the tyre that results from the smaller contact area, hotter tyres get softer, softer tyres wear quicker..
there are subtle differences in the wear patterns between the two. I get to see both pretty much everyday, as vw cant seem to set the suspension geometry on their new cars very well
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Mattb
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Registered: 2nd Feb 03
Location: Under your sisters bed
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But yeh, as all said above, its difficult to give figures, trial and error method will be the way forward. And yeh, of you go too far you can find yourself replacing tyres very quickly 
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