AndyKent
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Registered: 3rd Sep 05
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Currently got my eye on a place which looks to be a pretty good deal. Within walking distance of my office and would be a good step onto the property ladder. Top floor, recently refurbished and going to auction (by the company I work for) in a few weeks time.
Like a lot of flats in the area its a leasehold ownership for sale rather than the freehold (so the original owner can keep control over maintenance etc.).
Just wanted to know if anyone had ever had trouble selling on a leasehold flat. I shouldn't see why you should, but worth asking all the same 
I know the technical details of what leasehold is, but anything else I should be aware of? Any horror stories with landlords fucking you about?
Ta muchly 
[Edited on 15-06-2010 by AndyKent]
[Edited on 16-08-2010 by AndyKent]
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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Mine is leasehold, I understood that to be fairly routine for shared buildings.
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ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
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Isn't leasehold the norm when living in a communal building? Plus there wont be a landlord as such in a block of flats, there will be a management company.
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Marc
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Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: York
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My mate is about to put his up for sale, I'll let you know how he gets on selling it.
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Cosmo
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Registered: 29th Mar 01
Location: Im the real one!
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I'd guess 99% of apartment/flats are leasehold, as is purely a way for the communual areas to be managed, building insurance to be sorted, etc.
You do have to watch the people managing the building though. When I first moved in to mine it was great, yearly charge wasn't cheap but the place was kept clean and well decorated and any issues were fixed quickly.
The freehold was then sold on to another company, and that's when things went shit. They increased the yearly charge massively at a time where the economy was shot. Some residents stopped paying it so that hit allus who were as the management company stopped certain services such as window cleaning and even the general cleaning from daily to once every few weeks.
When they took over in 2008 they also issued an intent to decorate the communual areas and therefore a request for our share of it. They took this money almost 2yrs ago now and are only just (in 2 weeks) about to start the decorations. And legally there is nothig against what they have done!!
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AndyKent
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Registered: 3rd Sep 05
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Thanks all. I'm sure most flats/apartments are either leasehold or commonhold. I'm hoping that maitenance of the building should be pretty straightforward since the flats are part of a converted house. There's only 5 flats in the building over three floors so (I hope!) maintenance should generally be easy to sort out. Each flat has it's own heating etc so it is literally cleaning, decoration and exterior issues that the landlord should cover.
In any case I'm still to find out a few details on the service charge and what it covers exactly. I also need to find out if the landlord is able to collar tenants for additional payments if a big repair arises.
Oh, and to find out exactly what amount the ground rent and service charges are!
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MarkM
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Registered: 11th Apr 01
Location: Liverpool
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In the main you will never see a flying freehold up for sale. Leaseholds as mentioned are to bind each flat apartment owner into legal obligations. Examples are not allowing their apartment to go into disrepair and maintenance obligations of the management company.
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AndyKent
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Registered: 3rd Sep 05
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Just dragging this thread back up a bit, wondered what people are paying service charge wise for their flats.
Eventually had the ground rent and service charge for the place I'm looking at confirmed as £30 per year (ground rent) and £510 to cover six months service charge.
Total is basically £87.50 per month. Does that seem reasonable?
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_Allan_
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Registered: 24th Mar 04
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The gf pays about £80 a month on her rented out 1 bedroom flat, for service charges.
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Cosmo
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Registered: 29th Mar 01
Location: Im the real one!
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Bout £1500 on mine a year 
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Aaron
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Registered: 9th Aug 04
Location: Cottingham, East Riding
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I pay £50 per month. For that, i get the following.
Building Insurance
The gardens sorted (grass and bushes (  ) trimmed)
hallways cleaned
hallway walls painted if needed (it was fully decorated about a year ago)
Any external issues sorted (broken windows etc)
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AndyKent
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Registered: 3rd Sep 05
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Ok, so £90 might be slightly on the high side possibly, but by too much. Nice to know I'm not paying anything well over the odds, cheers 
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Cosmo
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Registered: 29th Mar 01
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Check it includes stuff like interior decoration and repairs - as often (as is with mine) they can sting you with these extra costs that you have no option but to pay.
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AndyKent
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Registered: 3rd Sep 05
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The auction legal pack should be out end of the week with those bits and piece in. Will check before I do anything, thanks
So yours is actually £1500 plus decoration and repairs then
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Cosmo
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Registered: 29th Mar 01
Location: Im the real one!
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I don't have the exact figure in front of me but it's something like £1500 a year which covers cleaning of the communual areas, window cleaning, general repairs (nothing major just things like locks, etc) and insurance. Decoration is an extra, and for this they got quotes and split this between themselves and each apartment as an extra.
Worse still, I've been paying my £1500 but they have been with holding services such ad the window cleaning and only a 2 weekly cleaning due to some fuckers not paying. I may get a refund but it's unlikely, and in the meantime it means I get fucked over double as the place becomes a tip.
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Aaron
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Registered: 9th Aug 04
Location: Cottingham, East Riding
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oh, i get my windows cleaned to...apparently...
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Cosmo
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Registered: 29th Mar 01
Location: Im the real one!
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Yeah I say we do - but I've never seen them get done and are always dirty outside so I doubt it tbh.
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_Allan_
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Registered: 24th Mar 04
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u2u Doyle the window licker.
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jrsteeve
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: Manchester
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Anything sub £1500 is average. Parents have a place which is £3k per year and there are others stupidly high so count yourself lucky!
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Fad
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Registered: 1st Feb 01
Location: Dartford Kent Drives: 330cd
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We have a property management division of our Surveying practice and we own several free holds etc.
IMO I would never own a leasehold property as there are too many variables and you are often tied in with other lessee's who you dont really know.
Any shortfalls in income due to non payers comes back at the rest of the lessee's.
I deal with all maintenance issues and capital improvments of these buildings and depending on how old the building is I would say £80.00 a month is pretty cheap for a service charge. Some of the blocks I look after are like 1500-2000 per year.
The charge you pay should include a sinking fund which goes towards redecorations/unforseen items of expenditure. An this is the underlying problem if there is a major maintenance issue and the funds from the service charges dont cover it you will be liable and have to pay it whether you can afford it or not by the terms in your lease.
I would get a bloody good solicitor who knows about these things and does the research for you i.e what he charges have been, what items of expenditure is anticipated and how many people are in arrears etc. Also avoid a building with a lift in it as this can cause some serious costs.
Also it is possible to own a flat freehold as all lessee's have the express right to purchase the freehold at a fair market value and manage the building themselves by forming a management company/residents associations. You effectively become shareholders.
In short a leasehold is is not a great investment in my opinion, however this depends on the avilabilty of freehold properties in the area. e.g in London you would have very little choice in the matter.
Any questions drop me a U2U I am pretty familliar with lease hold leases.
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AndyKent
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Registered: 3rd Sep 05
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Thanks again everyone, all useful info and appreciated.
I'm now at a crossroads. Everything checks out ok (maintenance includes everything I would expect it to and as a surveyor myself I can see there are no upcoming repairs needed around the building). As I say, its a fairly simple converted Victorian house so theres not a lot to go wrong. Roof is sound, exterior clean and tidy so I'm pretty happy on that front.
I had another viewing yesterday and I can definately see myself living there, but it did firm up in my mind that I won't be wanting to pay over the odds for it since its not THAT special. If I buy, it'll have to be at the right price. The guide is £75k, and the auctioneer reckons 10% over that should be pretty easy to reach (so £82500) but having done my research I think between £78-80k would be my top limit, especially since the lease will need renewing in a few years for peace of mind).
Auction is on Thursday and I'm getting a bit nervous. The freedom of buying would be ace, but having looked at the state of the housing market at the moment I've decided on a price which isn't much over the guide and knowing the interest there has been in it I'm not sure it'll be enough to get it.
Fuck it, just have to go along and see what happens, but I'm not getting my hopes up in the slightest.
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Dan
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Registered: 22nd Apr 02
Location: Gorleston on Sea, Norfolk
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Stick to your price, if you lose it, you lose it, happens for a reason!
Places just aint selling here. My place when i got it had 5 people bidding on it 2 years ago, ive had it on market for 2 months now, and no interest at all yet!
Adult GiftsClick here to vist us
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AndyKent
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Registered: 3rd Sep 05
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Same here I think. There's masses on the market with regular agents not going anywhere (out of my price range) though our auction always go well for some reason.
As you say, I'll stick to my guns and see what happens. Not a disaster to stay at home, I'll just keep saving
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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If you want it, you're going to end up paying more.
Ask yourself how you'll feel if you come away at £90k. If that sounds like you'll have paid too much, go there with your ceiling, state it and sit back if it goes past you.
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AndyKent
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Registered: 3rd Sep 05
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Update for anyone who cares - been to the auction. Flats didn't do well at all, none sold, including the one I was interested in. Few people bidding, but none met reserve. Loads of other stuff in there did really well, just not amy of the flats.
Hey ho, I put my bid in but was enough. I get the feeling what I would be willing to pay is under the reserve anyway.
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