Jambo
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Registered: 8th Sep 01
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Are there any guides availible on how to make a switch?
To be more accurate. I have a Stop/Start button from a BMW that has a chip so wont run with my older car. But wish to make it work. I basically need to know how to make a switch. The button has a moving part which i could fasten a contact onto each end so be "open" most of the time, till depressed fully and then circuit becomes "closed"
How difficult would this be? I have a soldering iron and am willing to learn 
Help
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
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As you say, it won't be plug n play but there will be contacts there somewhere that switch which you could use with a relay.
How far can you strip the button down? Have you tried 'buzzing' (use a DVM, most have a buzzer; otherwise measure resistance) out any of the pins/contacts and see if any make contact?
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Gary
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Registered: 22nd Nov 06
Location: West Yorkshire
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Get a brake light switch and hack that up. Will be a good starting point
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Jambo
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I'll get a picture it's hard to explain.
Basically it's a plastic button, with a removable circuit in there. I removed it and it's now just a plastic shell. No circuit or wires etx. Just a switch.
Want to make it a push button start. So I.e a proper electrical switch that I install.
I'll get a pic to illustrate
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Dom
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So you removed the inner gubbins and there is now the housing and switch with contacts? Or was the 'removable circuit' the switch and now you just have a housing?
If it's the former, then what's the problem? Just wire the contacts to a relay. If it's the latter then there will be points on the removed board that with 'make' when you press the button. It's just a case of hunting out the contacts, as you can easily do with a DVM, and then wiring that to a relay.
If you wanted to bodge it then you could probably wedge a maplin-esque push switch in there but personally that wouldn't be the route i'd take.
Get pictures of the housing, inners and the board.....
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Jambo
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Right Dom, thanks for your help.
Here's some visual aids:
Here's the switch:
The reverse (built)
Removed (it clips in)
Here's a close up:
So as you mentioned it is the latter. Make a switch out of the plastic housing. I have a switch from a solenoid I had brand new. Could "bodge" in another switch but was thinking of making a basic one out of the plastic housing?
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Gary
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Registered: 22nd Nov 06
Location: West Yorkshire
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Goto maplins, have a look the their switch gear, there will be something that'll do the job.
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Chris
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Registered: 21st Sep 99
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I would use the full BMW insides, get a meter and test from all the pins to find a push to make trigger (pin 1 and 4), this can then be connected to drive the starter relay, although the BMW switch might also need to realyed.
If you want to use it as an actual start / stop switch you need to send some sort of speed pluse into the circuit so u carnt turn off while moving.
http://www.bimmerdiy.com/diy/e36startbutton/
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Dom
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Is it a latching push switch then? Or is it just a normal push-to-make?
Will be an issue if it's the former, otherwise do as said; check some of the pins (unless it's a Z8 switch then chances are it won't be pins 1 and 4) will 'make' when the switch is pressed, it's just the case of finding which ones. Failing that, the 'white' bit on the board looks to be the actual switch so just solder some wires to the pins on the backside of it.
Once you sorted then you just need a relay for the starter.
If it's latching then you'll need some form of logic if you're wanting the original 'push to start; push to stop' function. Otherwise I would just replace the inners with a push-to-make switch from maplin's, although you'll have to bodge something in there.
[Edited on 30-01-2012 by Dom]
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Jambo
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Registered: 8th Sep 01
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Not sure I follow 
The circuit will NEVER work as it needs an external circuit to work with the E36. Can bus and all that. I may be totally wrong but I think the white bit is the illumination led?
What I was on about (maybe completely wrong) but was to put a wire/contact on the moving slider in the switch. And one one the frame of the switch. Connect these two wires to a switch or relay or a small circuit?!?! Then the switch (BMW) would just be the part making the connection, the "switch" part would be able to be wired separately.
Does that make sense or is my ignorence embarrassing myself if geek day 
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Chris
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Registered: 21st Sep 99
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Not worth hacking the BMW switch, think of the R&D costs that went into making it.
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Dom
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You'd wedge a switch (maplin effort) in the backside of the current housing, when you pressed the BMW's switch fascia (where it reads 'START STOP engine') it'd in turn press the inner-switch and hey presto!
After that you just wire it to a relay and probably do something similar to the link Chris posted where the guy wired it to the 'start' position on the key barrel.
But that board doesn't look like it has any logic (if you can get better pics top down and the backside of it, it'd be great), rather a switch (/led combo) and a few surface-mount resistors. So yes, it may connect into the CAN system but I suspect that there will be a few pins there that will make contact when you press the switch.
Certainly worth testing that, takes all of a minute, before you go hacking the housing.
[Edited on 30-01-2012 by Dom]
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Jambo
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I'll dig out a link of a guy who did it on his e39 5 series. He said that you need external circuits to fool it. (2 x iirc) it's not a traditional start/stop in the sense you hold it down. It's a 1click then the car starts it for you. If that makes sense.
I have thought about wedging a button in there which is entirely possible or making a wedge that in turn presses the other switch. But due to possible mounting depth issues and fragility, I was thinking of making the switch (BMW) the contact, wired to another switch which effectively replaces the button on the switch?!
I can give you more info tommorow
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Jambo
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http://www.unitedbimmer.com/forums/e36/9734-e90-push-start-stop-switch-diy-2.html
https://sites.google.com/a/netmgr.co.uk/netmgr-co-uk/bmw-e90-stop-start-button
As second link explains the difficulties the OP in first thread mentions to just wire it to fire the starter motor is easy! (apparently) that's what I'm after. Get in car, turn ignition on, press button to fire starter to start the car. Leaving key start intact as an alternative.
Make sense?
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
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I did original think if it was a hall-effect (think reed) switch but then thought it'd be a bit OTT; clearly not 
But that's only 'difficult' because he wanted to be able to 1) trigger a timed startup with a single press (rather than press and hold) and 2) wanted push-to-stop hence the 'box of tricks' (using a pic and a few relays).
But if you're after a simple 'press and hold button until engine starts' setup (ie: typical of after market push-start buttons, pressing the button simulates turning the key) then it's pretty straight forward. Connecting pins 3 and 4 or 10 and 4 should make (likewise 8 and 9/8 and 6); test it with a DVM to double though. If it checks out ok then you just need to feed it 12v to a relay; then the other side of the relay will go to your key barrel.
Only issue is if there is anything fancy happening when you're turning the key to start the engine, but nothing suggests that from the forums posts. Infact the guy states a simple press and hold setup is doable, he just thought it was pointless.
[Edited on 30-01-2012 by Dom]
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Dan
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Registered: 22nd Apr 02
Location: Gorleston on Sea, Norfolk
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Do you need it to stop the car as well?
You can get a similar looking start button for cheap, and use that with ease. Using this switch looks far more hassle than its worth to me.
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ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
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quote:
Originally posted by Dom
I did original think if it was a hall-effect (think reed) switch but then thought it'd be a bit OTT; clearly not
Need's to last a few years without failing!
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Jambo
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Ah ok Dom, that was really what i was after tbh. A push and hold to start. Sometimes with SMG cars the pump can take 3-15secs to "prime" so you need to keep the key held round till it fires. Pressing a button makes more sense and its less stress on your hand and the barrell (Which now has movement in it)
So all I am after is a push to start, id like it to stop the engine but could easily forgo that if the original chip board can be used.
Whats a DVM btw?
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ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
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Digital Volt Meter:
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Jambo
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Right gotcha.
Can pins 1&2 for illumination be wired simultaneously as well?
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pow
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Registered: 11th Sep 06
Location: Hazlemere, Buckinghamshire
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Jambo, if you fancy a dirty meet up one night I could buzz the pins out and tell you what does what if you like?
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adiohead
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Registered: 28th Sep 01
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Can I come?
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Dan
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Registered: 22nd Apr 02
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Looks to me like you need -ve and +ve feeds to get a -ve output when switch depressed. Looks slightly more complicated than a simple push to make switch.
Only making it start would be fairly straight forward provided the car uses a simple exciter wire to trigger the starter.
Would just need to use a relay. That -ve output would go to pin 85, pin 86 would need to be an ignition live. Pin 30 a live and pin 87 would go to the starter feed.
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ed
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I could probably make you a little board with a relay on it which switches when you press the button too if you need I'm not sure how you could reliably make it switch the starter and turn the car off, but perhaps someone else would know?
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Dan
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Registered: 22nd Apr 02
Location: Gorleston on Sea, Norfolk
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You could make it stop the car, with a simple circuit as well. It all really depends on how the car is wired though. Would need to see a wiring diagram for the car its being fitted to.
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