big eck
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Registered: 20th Apr 03
Location: Tullibody. Drives - Audi B8 S4 & Fiesta Zetec-S
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I was listening to the radio the other day and the topic of discussion was which one of these fuels is best now that the price of diesel is 8p a ltr more expensive than normal unleaded.
I was thinking of buying a diesel car as a daily, something like an Audi a4 or mk2 Leon tdi but now I'm not so sure.
What kind of mileage are you best covering before you actually make any kind of saving???
Yes I know that the petrol engines sound better but the newage diesels are bloody quiet compared to the one of old and speed wise they can now give the petrol equivalent a run for its money.
So which do you think is the best alrounder for money saving as well as looks and speed.
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daymoon
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Registered: 1st Aug 08
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
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Diesel.
Don't forget that petrol with same power will have higher tax in most cases and probably insurance too
[Edited on 05-02-2012 by daymoon]
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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The diesel will sell for more at the end of it which most calculations don't seem to take into account.
I'm going back to diesel next. The way they drive is better for 95% of my driving.
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Ste L
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Registered: 3rd Jul 06
Location: Manchester Drives: 106 16v Rallye
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i've just bought my first diesel, love the way it drives.
tax is cheaper as said, cost me the same to tax my 1.9 td as it did to tax my 1.2 16v corsa
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3i_gaz
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Registered: 29th Nov 07
Location: Liverpool
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depends what sort of year car your looking at some of the newer petrol engines with stop start, direct injection, do silly silly MPG for what they are and more often than not free or less than 50 quid a year to tax!
Diesels are dearer to buy as always but depending on what you go for especially mapped are immense when it comes to fuel consumption
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big eck
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Registered: 20th Apr 03
Location: Tullibody. Drives - Audi B8 S4 & Fiesta Zetec-S
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The ones I'm thinking of are the Audi A4 170bhp vag diesels (I think that's what they are anyways). One pulled out in front of me tonight and before I could flash the lights he shot off like a scalded cat. I caught with him at the next roundabout and my first thought it was a 2ltr turbo petrol as it was bloody quick but I then noticed it was the 2ltr diesel. I thought you really needed to be doing a good amount of mileage to reap the rewards of the diesel and that just using them about the streets is a waste.
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AndyCorsaSport
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Registered: 12th Feb 06
Location: Horsforth, West Yorkshire
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I quite fancy a diesel. Not just for the saving as I don't do many miles. But on long journeys it will help. And they drive nice and effortless. I picked up a remapped fabia vrs other week. Went like shit off a stick. 6th on motorway at 70. Plant foot and in no time it was silly speeds. Was really Suprised!!
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Corsa_Sport21
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Registered: 13th Apr 08
Location: Leven, Fife. Drives : 205 GTi
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Like for like, brand new, yes the diesel will fetch more than the petrol equivilent.
But thats not so much the case in the 2nd hand car market.
And yes, regardless of how many miles you do wether it be low or high, the diesel will be alot better on the fuel.
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richc
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Registered: 24th Mar 07
Location: Ilkeston
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Diesels worth more even with silly miles.
People say they can handle high miles due to being 'a diesel'. I dont see how this is the case tbh. All bushes,suspension still tires out at high milage.
I think they are alot easier to sell as everyone thinks they will do 55 mpg 'thrashing it everywhere' or 'around town. This doesnt happen.
Despite that, i pick up my first diesel car tonight (discounting my old tracter of a disco). Fancy trying it and its been very well looked after with all cambeltc changes etc being done when required. Should be easy to sell on after also.
I also think (with the modern diesels), that if something goes wrong they cost a fortune. Turbos, DPF's etc all run into there thousands and any saving will be lost.
Swings and round-abouts.
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whitter45
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Registered: 15th Nov 02
Location: Norton
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really depends on the mileage you intend to do
Most of the time you need to be doing circa 18k to 20k a year depending on the car
Road tax will be cheaper but the biggest benefit is mpg so unless your doing the miles the derv may end up more expensive to won when considering the purchase price
[Edited on 06-02-2012 by whitter45]
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richc
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Registered: 24th Mar 07
Location: Ilkeston
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quote:
Originally posted by whitter45
really depends on the mileage you intend to do
Most of the time you need to be doing circa 18k to 20k a year depending on the car
Road tax will be cheaper but the biggest benefit is mpg so unless your doing the miles the derv may end up more expensive to won when considering the purchase price
[Edited on 06-02-2012 by whitter45]
Agreed.
Saying that, last saturday i had ago in a 2008 320I and i often drive works 2010 320ed so feel like a good comparison.
The 320I (non m sport)went reasonably well. Cruised along at 100 no bother in 6th gear doing circa 4k and felt like it would do it all day long. Seems to have a very boring linear power band though which i suppose can be a good thing. It has done 100k and still felt very tight. Sempt fairly quick too. But i just couldnt help thinking the 320ed was the better car and overall felt quicker with crazy mpg figures to boot. Im all for petrol but cant help think in this instance, the diesel in the better car. It has only done 50k but feels just as tight as the 100k in the petrol. Granted I didnt take at look at the 320I mpg but i imagine it to be a good 15mpg less in the same driving fassion.
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Corsa_Sport21
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Registered: 13th Apr 08
Location: Leven, Fife. Drives : 205 GTi
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But surely if he has a budget, then he will be looking for 2nd hand cars in that price range??
So unless you are on about like for like prices, then i can't see why he would need to do 18-20k a year to get the benefit of a diesel.
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whitter45
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Registered: 15th Nov 02
Location: Norton
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quote:
Originally posted by Corsa_Sport21
But surely if he has a budget, then he will be looking for 2nd hand cars in that price range??
So unless you are on about like for like prices, then i can't see why he would need to do 18-20k a year to get the benefit of a diesel.
agree but then a 320d and a 320 wont be the same price 2nd hand so the bufget may only allow a petrol version of the car he wants
Without knowing the cars he is comparing most of this is just theory
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A2H GO
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Registered: 14th Sep 04
Location: Stoke
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I bought my diesel knowing full well I wouldn't save any money on fuel but I'd be able to have a 180bhp car with cheap insurance and £30 to tax for the year.
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Sunz
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Registered: 12th Jan 07
Location: SE England
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I'm looking for an diesel, I wont be using it much but £30 a year tax and low insurance groups are a bonus plus they are slighty better for the enviroment.
I like to have torque, if I was to buy a petrol car it would have to be a 1.4 due to tax, insurance and fuel costs, so I might as well buy a turbo diesel with a good amount of torque which is still cheaper to run, tax and insure then the petrol but is easier to drive.
Problem is if you just stick to town driving, stop and start enviroment, you will have to change the "soot" filters all the time, if you leave them then it's an expensive repair.
I think for some reason you need to do higher speeds then 30mph, 40mph for about 10 minutes, it will send an electric shock on to one of the filters, which I believe sapps the soot away 
But saying all that, there is a system that works reguardless of vehicle speed, so maybe newer models have this.
[Edited on 06-02-2012 by Sunz]
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Simon_16v
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Registered: 14th Aug 06
Location: Yorkshire
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Normally the £30 to tax ones are the smaller engined diesels which are gutless unless you enjoy high MPG.
I used to have an Ibiza FR which has the PD130 engine, it had a conservative remap on it which increased power to circa 160bhp / 270lb/ft of torque and like Andy said you can put your foot down in 6th and before you know it you are way over the speed limit.
I sold the Ibiza to my brother and then i looked at buying something a bit different. Test drove the Corsa D 1.3cdti which has the same BHP as my current car (mk2 Leon 1.9tdi) but felt slower due to it making less torque.
Either way best thing is to drive them as a lot of diesels drive differently, particularly the sportier ones to the more economical ones.
It's also worth noting that some people have suffered injector and DPF problems on the 170 engines
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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quote:
Originally posted by Sunz
Problem is if you just stick to town driving, stop and start enviroment, you will have to change the "soot" filters all the time, if you leave them then it's an expensive repair.
I think for some reason you need to do higher speeds then 30mph, 40mph for about 10 minutes, it will send an electric shock on to one of the filters, which I believe sapps the soot away
But saying all that, there is a system that works reguardless of vehicle speed, so maybe newer models have this.
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big eck
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Registered: 20th Apr 03
Location: Tullibody. Drives - Audi B8 S4 & Fiesta Zetec-S
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Like has been said the £30 a year tax is for the lower cc engines. I have the zetec S tdci 1.6 and it's £30 a year but I'd be after the larger engine diesels.
This dpf thing, can't it be removed altogether???
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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There's a few ".0 140bhp in the £30 bracket.
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Simon_16v
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Registered: 14th Aug 06
Location: Yorkshire
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quote:
Originally posted by Sunz
I'm looking for an diesel, I wont be using it much but £30 a year tax and low insurance groups are a bonus plus they are slighty better for the enviroment.
I like to have torque, if I was to buy a petrol car it would have to be a 1.4 due to tax, insurance and fuel costs, so I might as well buy a turbo diesel with a good amount of torque which is still cheaper to run, tax and insure then the petrol but is easier to drive.
Problem is if you just stick to town driving, stop and start enviroment, you will have to change the "soot" filters all the time, if you leave them then it's an expensive repair.
I think for some reason you need to do higher speeds then 30mph, 40mph for about 10 minutes, it will send an electric shock on to one of the filters, which I believe sapps the soot away
But saying all that, there is a system that works reguardless of vehicle speed, so maybe newer models have this.
[Edited on 06-02-2012 by Sunz]
Not all diesels have the particulate filter fitted but you are correct about the exhaust temperatures not being hot enough to burn off the soot
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Simon_16v
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Registered: 14th Aug 06
Location: Yorkshire
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quote:
Originally posted by big eck
Like has been said the £30 a year tax is for the lower cc engines. I have the zetec S tdci 1.6 and it's £30 a year but I'd be after the larger engine diesels.
This dpf thing, can't it be removed altogether???
They can be removed but it's not too cheap. I know on a Leon 170tdi if you remove the DPF and remap it achieves 210bhp which is pretty impressive!
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A2H GO
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Registered: 14th Sep 04
Location: Stoke
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quote:
Originally posted by big eck
Like has been said the £30 a year tax is for the lower cc engines. I have the zetec S tdci 1.6 and it's £30 a year but I'd be after the larger engine diesels.
This dpf thing, can't it be removed altogether???
Mine is a 2.0T, BMW...141bhp as standard (180 remapped). If you need anything any quicker then a diesel probably isn't the car for you.
[Edited on 06-02-2012 by A2H GO]
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big eck
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Registered: 20th Apr 03
Location: Tullibody. Drives - Audi B8 S4 & Fiesta Zetec-S
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I disagree lol. Theres a few diesels that can be mapped to over 200bhp easily.
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whitter45
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Registered: 15th Nov 02
Location: Norton
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quote:
Originally posted by Simon_16v
Normally the £30 to tax ones are the smaller engined diesels which are gutless unless you enjoy high MPG.
I used to have an Ibiza FR which has the PD130 engine, it had a conservative remap on it which increased power to circa 160bhp / 270lb/ft of torque and like Andy said you can put your foot down in 6th and before you know it you are way over the speed limit.
I sold the Ibiza to my brother and then i looked at buying something a bit different. Test drove the Corsa D 1.3cdti which has the same BHP as my current car (mk2 Leon 1.9tdi) but felt slower due to it making less torque.
Either way best thing is to drive them as a lot of diesels drive differently, particularly the sportier ones to the more economical ones.
It's also worth noting that some people have suffered injector and DPF problems on the 170 engines
depends on the manufactuer
118d with 143bhp and 240ibs/ft is 30 tax
320d with 184 BHP and 280ibs/ft is 90 tax so hardly gutless in either form
Same with the Audis
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mwg
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Registered: 19th Feb 04
Location: South Lakes
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quote:
Originally posted by big eck
I disagree lol. Theres a few diesels that can be mapped to over 200bhp easily.
Yep my 2.0 TDI 170 was over 200 with a remap. I did over 40,000 miles in it with no DPF problems.
What about a 3.0 TDI A4? Or 330d? Then you are looking at serious torque 
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