DaveyLC
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Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
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As I'm sure a lot of you know I hate spending money on cars when I know I'm never going to see it again so the idea of building a camper pains me because you're pretty much guaranteed to piss away a bucket of money.
You probably don't care about my dilemma but I wanted to get some constructive input (I've probably come to the wrong place for that  ).
Here's the story:
Over the last couple of years I've been looking around for a suitable van to start with and learning lots about the pros and cons:
VW T4
Pros: Cheaper than a T5.. Its VW so the VAG tinted spectacle wearers will give me a love.
Cons: Drive like a piece of shit and the interior is dire.
VW T5
Pros: Drives slightly less shit than a T4.. Looks very nice.
Cons: Stupendously expensive to buy a decent example unless its a 9 seater LWB mini-bus that has been to mars and back.
Mercedes Vito (W639)
Pros: Relatively cheap to buy compared to a T5 even if you want low mileage late example.. Not bad looking.. RWD.. Decent spec.
Cons: Most of them are shit spec, done a million miles and are riddled with rust.
Mercedes Viano (W639)
Pros: Slightly cheaper than equivalent T5's.. Amazing spec.. RWD & Air suspension means the ride is great.
Cons: Even harder to find low mileage examples, rust is still an issue on early models and most of them are Extra-long wheel-base which is impossible to park.
And one of the biggest cons with pretty much every vehicle listed above (other than the Viano and some of the T4/T5 Caravelle's) is they are all Van derived on the log book (Panel van or mini-bus) which means insurance comes at a premium and whacking my misses on the policy for SD&P comes at an even bigger premium (circa £1,000/year for a joint policy)...
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So what did I buy?
After a good look around I decided what I want is the Mercedes Viano Fun which is in-essence a four birth (2 in the cab and 2 on top) pop-top day-van (no cooker/sink bullshit)... However they never sold these in the UK 
So I thought "I'll make my own, how hard could it be"? After spending a year vaguely looking around I managed to source a 2004, 80k mile, standard wheel-base Viano, which also happened to be top spec and auto (double bonus).. It was a little rough around the edges but because of a gearbox fault it cost me £5k which was the sort of money absolutely hanging examples with 250k miles+ were going for.
I know the gearbox fault was easy to fix so I bought it and of course fixed it..
Then I decided to start looking for pop-top roofs and this is where the whole game starts to change you're pretty much stuck with 4 options:
* Universal kit
* Genuine Reimo / Westfalia Roof (as used by Mercedes them selves).
* Terrible copy of a Reimo / Westfalia Roof.
* Pop-top UK's not quite so terrible copy of a Reimo / Westfalia roof.
The universal stuff looks toss, will probably leak and is just for standing room only so that removes that one from the list.. The cheap copies are just too terrible (will also probably leak/crack) and the pop-top UK ones aren't the best either they still requires lots of messing about to make them fit..
..That leaves Reimo and once you've paid for the Fitting-frame, Bed VAT & Delivery you're looking at £3k, plus it needs painting.
I've looked around and a reasonable mileage Vito camper with a pop-top roof start selling for about £12-16k but I don't want the cooker and all that bullshit plus I also want it to be an auto and have all the toys..
So, do I give up or do I order the Reimo roof and stop being such a tight arse?
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Nic Barnes
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Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
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should have got a vw.
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Nic Barnes
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Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
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and posted in general chat
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DaveyLC
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Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
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quote:
Originally posted by Nic Barnes
should have got a vw.
I couldn't stomach a T4, they are just woeful to drive and the T5 wasn't exactly getting my juices flowing.. Modern transits drive nicer IMHO.
[Edited on 29-10-2014 by DaveyLC]
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DaveyLC
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Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
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quote:
Originally posted by Nic Barnes
and posted in general chat
Someone would have told me "A Camper is not a car" 
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Balling
Premium Member
Registered: 7th Apr 04
Location: Denmark
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Buy cheap Vito camper, switch roofs, sell Vito camper.
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DaveyLC
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Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
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quote:
Originally posted by Balling
Buy cheap Vito camper, switch roofs, sell Vito camper.
That's a lot of effort.. Plus there are no 'cheap Vito campers with a pop top roof'.
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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Surely it'll square up when you sell it, I know the bits are expensive but they're also loads of money done.
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DaveyLC
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Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
Surely it'll square up when you sell it, I know the bits are expensive but they're also loads of money done.
The optimistic side of me says the same thing, but the majority of people who'd buy a camper either want the best, latest, lowest-mileage example they can afford and the rest want some real cheap crap .. Mine would float about in the middle
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Nic Barnes
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Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
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quote:
Originally posted by DaveyLC
quote:
Originally posted by Nic Barnes
should have got a vw.
I couldn't stomach a T4, they are just woeful to drive and the T5 wasn't exactly getting my juices flowing.. Modern transits drive nicer IMHO.
[Edited on 29-10-2014 by DaveyLC]
t4 is actually better to drive than a vito
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DaveyLC
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Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
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Must be a matter of opinion then
I can't stand FWD cars, let alone FWD vans.. My bro-in-law lined me up with a low mileage 2002 T4 Caravelle 2.5td auto, it drove like a metro on stilts and the bag of shit didn't even have ABS...
A DSG equipped T5 was very much better but way out of my budget.
[Edited on 29-10-2014 by DaveyLC]
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GB123
Premium Member
Registered: 21st Nov 11
Location: Kent
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Can you fuck tell the difference between a fwd and rwd van in normal everyday driving.
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DaveyLC
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Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
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quote:
Originally posted by GB123
Can you fuck tell the difference between a fwd and rwd van in normal everyday driving.
Of course you can! 2 Tonne of steel dragging its arse up the road drives very differently two 2 tonne being pushed.. And remember I'm not using this as a work-horse its to be a comfortable and relaxing method of transport.
Late vans with decent stability control and differentials that weren't built by cave-men are the exception.. Sadly a T4 doesn't fall into this category.
And which interior does it for you?
[Edited on 29-10-2014 by DaveyLC]
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Nic Barnes
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Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
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thing is, the t4 will do millions of miles. the vito will break constantly. theyre actually awful made plastic inside the vito and rattle way more than youd think.
having driven both before buying, the vito with 100k less miles than my t4 felt worse to drive, and was in general worse condition. in fact the rot on the vito was ridiculous.
also the depreciation on the vito surely should be a factor, the vw's are holding money well.
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Nic Barnes
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Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
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clocks in the vw pic are wrong for a late van btw.
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Tiger
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Registered: 12th Jun 01
Location: Leicestershire Drives:Astra VXR
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You'll be forever patching rust on mercs, especially a vito, we've had 5 at work, didn't last more than 8 years before they totally fell to bits.
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DaveyLC
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Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
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quote:
Originally posted by Nic Barnes
thing is, the t4 will do millions of miles. the vito will break constantly. theyre actually awful made plastic inside the vito and rattle way more than youd think.
having driven both before buying, the vito with 100k less miles than my t4 felt worse to drive, and was in general worse condition. in fact the rot on the vito was ridiculous.
also the depreciation on the vito surely should be a factor, the vw's are holding money well.
We both have completely different experiences
Remember I have already bought a Vito (well a Viano anyway) and after driving several versions of each car I feel comfortable with my choice, if I had a bigger budget I would have gone with a late T5 but sadly I didn't..
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DaveyLC
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Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
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Curiously enough Pop-tops UK have just offered me the Roof kit, fitting kit, bed kit (minus boards and matress) for £2k delivered.. I'm still not 100% convinced about the over-all quality of their kits though.
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ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
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Better off with a replica...
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DaveyLC
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Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
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LOL!! I doubt I could even lay down in that
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ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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If you're doing it you better do it now before all the Barnes types move onto some other scene.
I know the old VW campers are always popular but this whole thing of buying some van (literally just some old van) and then either being in a constant state of converting it to a camper, or converting then selling for a massively inflated price, will come to an end.
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Nic Barnes
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Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
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its been going on longer than you've been alive john. not really massively inflated prices, its supply and demand pricing. there is demand, so its supplied at those prices.
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Andrew
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Registered: 5th May 04
Location: Skoda Octavia Estate, Ford Puma
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If you can do a van and break even at the end -- happy days!
I'd love to do one but have a few other things i want to work on and plan for.
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Ben G
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Registered: 12th Jan 07
Location: Essex
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You'll get the money back at the end providing theres a market for them.
Glad to hear the vw's drive as shit as they look.
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