Marc
Member
Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: York
User status: Offline
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Too much PC and it gets to the point where you will be constantly stepping on egg shells.
I'm not against anyone saying coloured, but coloured bastard and black bastard produce the same out come.
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
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Fucking dual heritage 
Some of the most discriminatory people I've ever met claimed to be politically correct, not racist, sexist or anything else.
I've been to meetings where we were discussing people we'd interviewed, I was talking about the guy who couldn't decide on a timetable because he worked shifts. No one knew who I meant so they moved on to the next person, the black guy. Everyone knew the black guy because they remembered he was black. He also worked shifts.
Guy who had worked for Littlewoods catalogue, wanted to move from design in to web stuff, again, blank faces so we talked about the guy in the wheel chair. Oh yeah him, I remember him.
And these people run staff development sessions on how not to be a racist fucker, and the most noteworthy thing about people they meet is the very thing they're telling us doesn't matter.
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Nic Barnes
Member
Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
User status: Offline
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i call everyone tommy. saves hassle.
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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Cameron needs to step in and sort this bullshit out, hes got a bit of racism in him i reckon
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Marc
Member
Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: York
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
I've been to meetings where we were discussing people we'd interviewed, I was talking about the guy who couldn't decide on a timetable because he worked shifts. No one knew who I meant so they moved on to the next person, the black guy. Everyone knew the black guy because they remembered he was black. He also worked shifts.
Is that any worse than referencing the guy with a beard or the bald guy because you can not remember their name?
I get your point btw, but in the above context I am sure the same would be said in a majority black/coloured/brown community.
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
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The point is that remembering that guy as the black guy is easy. Demonstrates to me that they weren't listened to the rest of the time but that is another issue.
The major thing for me is that we were told on an almost weekly basis that race doesn't matter and we shouldn't do anything based on race, and everyone is equal, its all the same, but when it suited people, it was fine to use it.
Its either fine or its not. I'm very happy to recall someone as the black guy if it makes recollection easier, but don't in parallel to that hush up every other application of the distinction.
Guy I used to work with summed it up - if you need teaching about racism you're probably beyond hope. Most of the lessons are the skills required to act correctly so that you do the right thing. That isn't adjusting underlying attitudes, that's masking them so everyone looks happy.
Conversely in the case of Hansen, doing the wrong thing of course isn't racism, it's just a lack of attention to the correct terminology at that time. Which I applaud the guy for, I think his time is far better spent elsewhere.
[Edited on 22-12-2011 by Ian]
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Dr Pepper
Member
Registered: 21st Sep 02
Location: oxford Drives Renault Clio RS200
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Tom
quote:
Originally posted by Dr Pepper
Jesus wept...dont you get it? Your club obviously doesnt.
I don’t actually think you ‘get it’ as much as you’d like to think you do.
quote:
Originally posted by Dr Pepper
Its not a case of him being called a racist .... an independant panel have found him guilty of racial abuse ... that doesnt automatically mean he is a racist. Doesnt matter what his mates think of him, or how many black mates he has. If he used discriminating language of a racist nature then he is guilty of the charge levelled at him and he has no case to appeal on.
If the first line of what you have said is true (and it is), why have the kick racism out lot not lambasted the press’ coverage HERE yet are quick to criticise the players team mates for backing him when the FA’s full findings haven’t even been released yet? The fact they said something about it being damaging to the campaign or how young people interpret it is hugely bizarre to me when they are happy to wheel out a spokesperson on Sky straight after the gimps in the sky studio are calling him a racist every 5 minutes.
Also, how the hell you would know whether or not Suarez has case to appeal is beyond me, just because you can’t get your head round his defence doesn’t mean it’s not relevant and doesn't mean we won't get an appeal heard.
quote:
Originally posted by Dr Pepper
He has been found guilty of one of the charges levelled at him - he pretty much admitted to that charge, but said in his culture the phrase he used isnt offensive. Well im afraid it doesnt matter what he thought the phrase meant, if he said it thats the end of the matter as far as the FA are concerned. The simple fact is he shouldnt be saying anything along these lines to a black player on the pitch if you dont want to get into a case like this.
The issue I have, is the FA being inconsistent and the fact that club are not happy that there was any real evidence to convict him (and then hand out a massive ban). To put it simply, Suarez said something which in his culture isn’t offensive, Evra said something to him in Spanish that was either xenophobic or racist ‘Don't touch me, you South American’. Because Evra lodged the complaint about this, the FA have thrown the book at Suarez whilst ignoring words that Evra admitted to saying in his interview, and potentially ignoring the number of times and order in which things were said. Evra accused Suarez of saying this thing ‘at least 10 times’ which seems to have been brushed under the carpet, hence us calling him unreliable I guess.
The second rule that Suarez is supposed to have broken (lets ignore the insulting one for now as we know that happens 20 times a game) is FA Rule E3(2); the insulting words used by Mr Suarez included a reference to Mr Evra's colour within the meaning of Rule E3(2). If you look at Rule E3 in the FA handbook it includes ‘reference to any one or more of a person’s ethnic origin, colour, race, nationality, faith, gender, sexual orientation or disability’. Explain to me how what Evra admitted saying wasn’t in direct breach of these rules? Now explain to me how it’s ok for Suarez to be labelled a racist by a national newspaper, and how it’s ok that everyone is comfortable with this as long as we’re strengthening the message on racism? If Luis Suarez is a racist, Evra is a racist as far as I’m concerned.
quote:
Originally posted by Dr Pepper
He has made a stupid mistake, he is guilty under the rules - he has been banned an appropriate amount of games...,,whats so hard to take about this?
I’m not even going to get into the length of the ban, but what is so hard to take is that the FA used the situation to make an example out of Suarez alone, the press and even the campaigners are happy to use him as a scape-goat whilst in my view it’s actually detracting from the work they do. The fact the FA chose to ignore the complicated nature of the situation from our perspective, and disregard admissions that should amount to a similar charge for Evra tells me all I need to know. I genuinely would have been happier for this to be heard in a proper court. Suarez is not a racist, but everyone is willing to see him hung out to dry, everyone apart from all involved with LFC.
If people choose to call us embarrassing for that then so be it.
I really dont care what he meant by his comments, or if he was provoked by Fulham fans
Its very simple - if he doesnt mouth off to Evra repeatedly(and every other defender and official he has come into contact with this year), and if he doesnt stick his fingers up at the Fulham fans - he doesnt have a single problem.
You dont get banned for a possible 18 games in 15 months for two different clubs and his country unless you have an issue.
He has hurt your season with his stupidity and bad attitude - if you want to nit pick over his offence being punished too harsh compared to others then knock yourself out ..... every other club and fan in the country is laughing at you over this.
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Tom
Member
Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: Wirral, Merseyside
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Pepper
quote:
Originally posted by Tom
quote:
Originally posted by Dr Pepper
Jesus wept...dont you get it? Your club obviously doesnt.
I don’t actually think you ‘get it’ as much as you’d like to think you do.
quote:
Originally posted by Dr Pepper
Its not a case of him being called a racist .... an independant panel have found him guilty of racial abuse ... that doesnt automatically mean he is a racist. Doesnt matter what his mates think of him, or how many black mates he has. If he used discriminating language of a racist nature then he is guilty of the charge levelled at him and he has no case to appeal on.
If the first line of what you have said is true (and it is), why have the kick racism out lot not lambasted the press’ coverage HERE yet are quick to criticise the players team mates for backing him when the FA’s full findings haven’t even been released yet? The fact they said something about it being damaging to the campaign or how young people interpret it is hugely bizarre to me when they are happy to wheel out a spokesperson on Sky straight after the gimps in the sky studio are calling him a racist every 5 minutes.
Also, how the hell you would know whether or not Suarez has case to appeal is beyond me, just because you can’t get your head round his defence doesn’t mean it’s not relevant and doesn't mean we won't get an appeal heard.
quote:
Originally posted by Dr Pepper
He has been found guilty of one of the charges levelled at him - he pretty much admitted to that charge, but said in his culture the phrase he used isnt offensive. Well im afraid it doesnt matter what he thought the phrase meant, if he said it thats the end of the matter as far as the FA are concerned. The simple fact is he shouldnt be saying anything along these lines to a black player on the pitch if you dont want to get into a case like this.
The issue I have, is the FA being inconsistent and the fact that club are not happy that there was any real evidence to convict him (and then hand out a massive ban). To put it simply, Suarez said something which in his culture isn’t offensive, Evra said something to him in Spanish that was either xenophobic or racist ‘Don't touch me, you South American’. Because Evra lodged the complaint about this, the FA have thrown the book at Suarez whilst ignoring words that Evra admitted to saying in his interview, and potentially ignoring the number of times and order in which things were said. Evra accused Suarez of saying this thing ‘at least 10 times’ which seems to have been brushed under the carpet, hence us calling him unreliable I guess.
The second rule that Suarez is supposed to have broken (lets ignore the insulting one for now as we know that happens 20 times a game) is FA Rule E3(2); the insulting words used by Mr Suarez included a reference to Mr Evra's colour within the meaning of Rule E3(2). If you look at Rule E3 in the FA handbook it includes ‘reference to any one or more of a person’s ethnic origin, colour, race, nationality, faith, gender, sexual orientation or disability’. Explain to me how what Evra admitted saying wasn’t in direct breach of these rules? Now explain to me how it’s ok for Suarez to be labelled a racist by a national newspaper, and how it’s ok that everyone is comfortable with this as long as we’re strengthening the message on racism? If Luis Suarez is a racist, Evra is a racist as far as I’m concerned.
quote:
Originally posted by Dr Pepper
He has made a stupid mistake, he is guilty under the rules - he has been banned an appropriate amount of games...,,whats so hard to take about this?
I’m not even going to get into the length of the ban, but what is so hard to take is that the FA used the situation to make an example out of Suarez alone, the press and even the campaigners are happy to use him as a scape-goat whilst in my view it’s actually detracting from the work they do. The fact the FA chose to ignore the complicated nature of the situation from our perspective, and disregard admissions that should amount to a similar charge for Evra tells me all I need to know. I genuinely would have been happier for this to be heard in a proper court. Suarez is not a racist, but everyone is willing to see him hung out to dry, everyone apart from all involved with LFC.
If people choose to call us embarrassing for that then so be it.
I really dont care what he meant by his comments, or if he was provoked by Fulham fans
Its very simple - if he doesnt mouth off to Evra repeatedly(and every other defender and official he has come into contact with this year), and if he doesnt stick his fingers up at the Fulham fans - he doesnt have a single problem.
You dont get banned for a possible 18 games in 15 months for two different clubs and his country unless you have an issue.
He has hurt your season with his stupidity and bad attitude - if you want to nit pick over his offence being punished too harsh compared to others then knock yourself out ..... every other club and fan in the country is laughing at you over this.
Nice to see you've completely ignored my points.
I also note how the press are praising brave breave John Terry. There can be no doubt about his guilt, yet the press have pulled several punches.
PFA chief Gordon Taylors comments too, he mentions how if something is seen as racist in this country then as far as he's concerned it should be the case everywhere else in the world. Absolute self serving nonesense and hypocritical beyond belief.
Then you've got sky rigging daft little player of the season votes, let me know if you'd like more info about this one it's hilarious.
This whole country that's supposed to be accepting and open of different cultures couldn't be less so if it tried, the media throw out nonesensical PC rubbish to the point where no-one has a f*cking clue about what is right and wrong, look at the medias reaction to Terry and compare it to Suarez. It's beyond a joke.
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mwg
Member
Registered: 19th Feb 04
Location: South Lakes
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Tom
Then you've got sky rigging daft little player of the season votes, let me know if you'd like more info about this one it's hilarious.
This sounds interesting
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mwg
Member
Registered: 19th Feb 04
Location: South Lakes
User status: Offline
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Oh I see its rigged cos Suarez isn't winning it TBH I'm surprised RVP hasn't got more votes!
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Dr Pepper
Member
Registered: 21st Sep 02
Location: oxford Drives Renault Clio RS200
User status: Offline
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It's the fault of the press, Gordan Taylor and everyone in the country.... Apart from Suarez - who was the one who decided to open his mouth when he should have kept it shut
You realise how deluded you sound?
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chrisritch
Member
Registered: 2nd Sep 08
Location: Northants Drives: V40
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by mwg
Oh I see its rigged cos Suarez isn't winning it TBH I'm surprised RVP hasn't got more votes!
He was ahead on 67% last night. Sky are too fucking scared of being un-pc?
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chrisritch
Member
Registered: 2nd Sep 08
Location: Northants Drives: V40
User status: Offline
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and wtf has Nani done to deserve to win it?
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Russ
Member
Registered: 14th Mar 04
Location: Armchair
User status: Offline
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hang about, rigged player of the season
RVP and Saurez have both played in 17 EPL games this season
RVP has scored 16 goals from his 74 attempted shots (fuck  )
Suarez has scored 5 goals from his 75 attempted.
Wolverhampton Wanderers Steven Fletcher has scored 6 goals from 30 shots in his 12 games.
So, yeah, rigged
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Tom
Member
Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: Wirral, Merseyside
User status: Offline
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The sky thing said it was closed, they left it open and you could click on anyone but Suarez, it's petty and pathetic, exactly what you'd expect from Sky.
Dr Pepper, you are hilarious lad shame you ran out of bollocks to post and are just resorting to ignoring any points i've made, joker.
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Tom
Member
Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: Wirral, Merseyside
User status: Offline
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Russ see my post, I'm not assed who wins in and i'd agree that RVP has probably been the standout player but it's not about that really. Sky have an agenda (not saying it's all about being anti liverpool only) if you haven't noticed that companies owned by Murdoch aren't exactly what you'd call the moral and ethical beacon of the press in this country, i'm not sure what hole you've been hiding in.
[Edited on 23-12-2011 by Tom]
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Russ
Member
Registered: 14th Mar 04
Location: Armchair
User status: Offline
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just think saying it was fixed is a bit far fetched
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Dr Pepper
Member
Registered: 21st Sep 02
Location: oxford Drives Renault Clio RS200
User status: Offline
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How can someone who thinks suarez can do no wrong talk about anyone elses morals and ethics
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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FPMSL at the blame being angled at everyone but Suarez
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Tom
Member
Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: Wirral, Merseyside
User status: Offline
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great response as per Dr Pepper.
[Edited on 23-12-2011 by Tom]
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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Well lets not beat around the bush Suarez doesnt exactly have the best of records. Biting people, general agenda of trying to cheat by diving, then there was the world cup handball.
If this punishment is OTT, then maybe it serves as a lesson to him to make sure he actually behaves now and fulfils the talent he undoubtably has.
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Tom
Member
Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: Wirral, Merseyside
User status: Offline
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Yes that's right Steve, let's punish his for things that didn't happen in this country and that he's already been banned for. Let's let the press run riot on him because he's acted like a prick in the past, do you work the FA by any chance
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Tom
Member
Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: Wirral, Merseyside
User status: Offline
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Russ ignorance is bliss, it's far fetched that reporters would hack people's phones and medical records, this not so much.
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mwg
Member
Registered: 19th Feb 04
Location: South Lakes
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by chrisritch
and wtf has Nani done to deserve to win it?
I'd be surprised if Nani hadn't scored and assisted more goals than Suarez.
RVP should win it though, his form has been outstanding.
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Robbo
Member
Registered: 6th Aug 02
Location: London
User status: Offline
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where is this poll?
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