p4uls corsa
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Registered: 2nd May 05
Location: BRADFORD
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quote:
Originally posted by Cybermonkey
but why is that important??? GSi has 6/9 bhp more, but is heavier than a VTR. surely that would make things even? VTS is 20bhp more.
the vts and gsi engines are both 1.6 16v so they should be compaired not the lower 8 v models
it makes a big differnece having 8 valves more between vtr and the vts even between the 100bhp vtr which is only 20 bhp less
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Edd
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Registered: 8th Nov 04
Location: Glasgow
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quote:
Originally posted by Cybermonkey
why like for like? A Sport 1.6 is more closely matched to a VTR 100bhp model?
because it should be 1.6 16v against 1.6 16v
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Carl
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Registered: 9th May 04
Location: Jimmy Bennett's la la land.
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its like boxing, the vtr has shed some pounds and has still got the speed and the agility to take it to top of it's game, the 1.6 8v then tries to move up a weight, takes a few cars out and has a good battle against a medicore boxer at that weight, the gsi. The aging boxer should really be up there contending for the title but realises its just a dream and has no chance, the only way to move up is to train (tune) but that only gets him to the top 5, as the others that have also trained have the edge still.
The only way to win is to cheat and have a heart bypass, (engine conversion) This heart gives you the knock out punch but can still be beaten buy the agility of a minority of others.
  
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RKS
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Registered: 2nd Mar 04
Location: Gloucestershire UK
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quote:
Originally posted by Cybermonkey
quote:
Originally posted by --Rikki--
You need to take into consideration the fact that the VTR weighs less than a fart
[Edited on 07-03-2006 by --Rikki--]
950kg rather than 980 for a Corsa 
i gotta say im surprised! i thought that there was more in it than that, it deffinatly feels more when driving both!
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Edd
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Registered: 8th Nov 04
Location: Glasgow
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quote:
Originally posted by Carl
its like boxing, the vtr has shed some pounds and has still got the speed and the agility to take it to top of it's game, the 1.6 8v then tries to move up a weight, takes a few cars out and has a good battle against a medicore boxer at that weight, the gsi. The aging boxer should really be up there contending for the title but realises its just a dream and has no chance, the only way to move up is to train (tune) but that only gets him to the top 5, as the others that have also trained have the edge still.
The only way to win is to cheat and have a heart bypass, (engine conversion) This heart gives you the knock out punch but can still be beaten buy the agility of a minority of others.
fantastic!!!
best description of this age old battle ever
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Ant
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Registered: 12th May 02
Location: Hereford and Worcester
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silly argument really who cares what you compare to what.
The 1.4 16v corsa is not much of a match for the VTR
The 1.6 16v corsa is not as quick as a VTS
however the vts is in insurance group 14!!! the 1.6 sport is in gorup 10 and the gsi 11
Im sure if vauxhall had wanted the gsi to be a group 14 hot hatch the could have made it devlop more power as std but back in 1993 the hot hatch was diening so the GSI suited the market.
Perhaps if vauxhall had wanted to compete in that market they should have produced a more powerfull version in 1996 when the saxo came out.
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Carl
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Registered: 9th May 04
Location: Jimmy Bennett's la la land.
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quote:
Originally posted by aritchie
silly argument really who cares what you compare to what.
The 1.4 16v corsa is not much of a match for the VTR
The 1.6 16v corsa is not as quick as a VTS
however the vts is in insurance group 14!!! the 1.6 sport is in gorup 10 and the gsi 11
Im sure if vauxhall had wanted the gsi to be a group 14 hot hatch the could have made it devlop more power as std but back in 1993 the hot hatch was diening so the GSI suited the market.
Perhaps if vauxhall had wanted to compete in that market they should have produced a more powerfull version in 1996 when the saxo came out.
As you say, a silly arguement, made even worse with "if's" and "buts" introduced.
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p4uls corsa
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Registered: 2nd May 05
Location: BRADFORD
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whats insurance group got to do with it
the vtr is group 6 so there again if ur saying thats something to do with it the gsi closer match to a vts
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Ant
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Registered: 12th May 02
Location: Hereford and Worcester
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quote:
Originally posted by p4uls corsa
whats insurance group got to do with it
the vtr is group 6 so there again if ur saying thats something to do with it the gsi closer match to a vts
I suggest you read my post again, oh and acording to parkers a vtr is in group 7.
nobody will ever disagree with the fact a vtr is quicker than a 1.4 16v corsa nor that a vts is quicker that a 1.6 16v corsa. They are however 2 different cars marketed in different ways, just so happens the citreons pugs are quicker!!
[Edited on 07-03-2006 by aritchie]
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Edd
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Registered: 8th Nov 04
Location: Glasgow
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p4uls corsa
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Registered: 2nd May 05
Location: BRADFORD
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quote:
Originally posted by aritchie
silly argument really who cares what you compare to what.
The 1.4 16v corsa is not much of a match for the VTR
The 1.6 16v corsa is not as quick as a VTS
however the vts is in insurance group 14!!! the 1.6 sport is in gorup 10 and the gsi 11
Im sure if vauxhall had wanted the gsi to be a group 14 hot hatch the could have made it devlop more power as std but back in 1993 the hot hatch was diening so the GSI suited the market.
Perhaps if vauxhall had wanted to compete in that market they should have produced a more powerfull version in 1996 when the saxo came out.
I suggest you read my post again, oh and acording to parkers a vtr is in group 7.
nobody will ever disagree with the fact a vtr is quicker than a 1.4 16v corsa nor that a vts is quicker that a 1.6 16v corsa. They are however 2 different cars marketed in different ways, just so happens the citreons pugs are quicker!!
my point is that insurance group is shite all to do with power as u have tried to say it is. the corsa would not be group 14 just because it has an added 16bhp it dont work like that
the 106 gti is group 13 yet its the same as a saxo vts just looks different
the mk1 106 xsi are group 10 and only a 1.4 8v ect
the fact people are saying is that u cant compare a car with a 1.6 16v engine with a car that has an 8v engine its just stupid and like saying u can compare a turbod car with a non turbod
u have to find two cars same size and same engine size to compair them
[Edited on 07-03-2006 by p4uls corsa]
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Ant
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Registered: 12th May 02
Location: Hereford and Worcester
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vts is higher insurance group than a corsa gsi as it is faster!! thats why a 1.6 sport is in a higher group than a 1.4, granted styling std security rating and dadging also effects this but performance is the key indicator here, that is one of the reason the c16xe was 'de-tuned'
Vauxhall also reduced the power in the astra to suit the market at the time.
The point being made in the origin of this thread is that a corsa gsi performs better than a vtr, which im afraid we have accept this is true!!! Weather they should be compared or not is a different argument, however i agree that in a std to std comparison the vts/106gti performs better than a corsa gsi, however a vts/106gti with there higher insurace grouping may put off some younger drivers, this may then lead them consider a corsa gsi or vtr.
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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made me laugh my corsa gsi that was 13 years old and a grp 11 cost me more to insure than my 2000 megane coupe that was a grp 14
i put it down t the amount of boyracers and chavs that own the corsa gsi
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Cybermonkey
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Registered: 22nd Sep 02
Location: Sydney, Australia
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quote:
Originally posted by p4uls corsa
quote:
Originally posted by aritchie
silly argument really who cares what you compare to what.
The 1.4 16v corsa is not much of a match for the VTR
The 1.6 16v corsa is not as quick as a VTS
however the vts is in insurance group 14!!! the 1.6 sport is in gorup 10 and the gsi 11
Im sure if vauxhall had wanted the gsi to be a group 14 hot hatch the could have made it devlop more power as std but back in 1993 the hot hatch was diening so the GSI suited the market.
Perhaps if vauxhall had wanted to compete in that market they should have produced a more powerfull version in 1996 when the saxo came out.
I suggest you read my post again, oh and acording to parkers a vtr is in group 7.
nobody will ever disagree with the fact a vtr is quicker than a 1.4 16v corsa nor that a vts is quicker that a 1.6 16v corsa. They are however 2 different cars marketed in different ways, just so happens the citreons pugs are quicker!!
my point is that insurance group is shite all to do with power as u have tried to say it is. the corsa would not be group 14 just because it has an added 16bhp it dont work like that
the 106 gti is group 13 yet its the same as a saxo vts just looks different
the mk1 106 xsi are group 10 and only a 1.4 8v ect
the fact people are saying is that u cant compare a car with a 1.6 16v engine with a car that has an 8v engine its just stupid and like saying u can compare a turbod car with a non turbod
u have to find two cars same size and same engine size to compair them
[Edited on 07-03-2006 by p4uls corsa]
you guys need to open your eyes a bit. 16XE engine made a somewhat healthy 150bhp when it was being developed back in 1991/1992. even today, thats a massive power figure for an N/A engine with not VVT. so yeah, perhaps Vauxhall/Opel were being waaaaay too stringent with emissions and economy when they decided to fit that stoooopid inlet design.
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Cybermonkey
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Registered: 22nd Sep 02
Location: Sydney, Australia
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quote:
Originally posted by Corsa_Sam
made me laugh my corsa gsi that was 13 years old and a grp 11 cost me more to insure than my 2000 megane coupe that was a grp 14
i put it down t the amount of boyracers and chavs that own the corsa gsi
i put it down to you being older and wiser when it comes to insurance shopping
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Cybermonkey
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Registered: 22nd Sep 02
Location: Sydney, Australia
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oh FFS, why oh why are you making the 16XE engine out to be crap? its one of the best engines Vauxhall/Opel have ever made. what other 1600 n/a engine can make a sustained 220bhp?? because thats more than your Steve, and thats a modern 1800 Turbo
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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im not doubting the strength they are v.good engines really, just vaux made them to conservative
[Edited on 08-03-2006 by Corsa_Sam]
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Cybermonkey
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Registered: 22nd Sep 02
Location: Sydney, Australia
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yes they did Steve. Its good to see Vauxhall heading in the right direction now though...
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