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Author Chip tuning for the T4
tiptoptim
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Registered: 26th Feb 04
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14th Jul 06 at 23:09   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
My mate from work owns a c70 t5 and always go to volvo tuning for any work to be done on his car. He has had it chipped and it has taken the power from 240bhp to 310bhp. I have been to volvo tuning with him and they really know there stuff. It is defo worth the trip down there. There rolling road setup is impressive.

Sorry for the essay, thought this might help.
Steve
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14th Jul 06 at 23:51   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dave A
so that means they have a pre-programmed 'map' that they use to overwrite the standard one in the ecu. they will make changes to ignition timing, fuelling and possibly adjust the parameters of certain signals such as intake air temp etc....

without giving it a full new 'map' that is tailor made for your car, how can they be sure that the fueling and ignition timing is spot-on? even being a few degrees out on ignition timing etc... can leat to detonation and a very poorly engine. running slightly lean can be even worse. A solution to be sure would be to put it on a rolling road whilst being mapped, oh wait, they dont do that. Its guesswork mapping, similar to a Superchip etc....

Get it done properly!


with a knock sensor slight variations in timing arent usually a problem, also fueling is adjusted by the software on the ecu automatically as it adapts, fueling is always being adapted anyway due to conditions, they will adjust the timing, and boost levels which is where the power comes from, on a turbo car differences with generic and live remaps will be pretty much nothing, tbh

i kno sum1 with an lcr revo "generic map" and anothe with a live jabba map, both are identical performance wise and the generic actually output a slight more power

ecus are clever these days, the need for human tweaking in remaps is hardly needed in modern vehicles

[Edited on 14-07-2006 by Steve]
Ian
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15th Jul 06 at 00:11   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
Yeah I agree with Steve, I wouldn't worry too much if its a generic map or otherwise, I would have thought the ECU will sort it out same is it would with a standard map and the same conditions.
Steve
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15th Jul 06 at 00:27   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
mav i live 10mins from broms u can post me the ecu if u like
Kyle T
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15th Jul 06 at 05:49   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
Seat Leon - Volvo ECU conversion






Lotus Elise 111R

Impreza WRX STi
mav
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15th Jul 06 at 06:47   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tiptoptim
My mate from work owns a c70 t5 and always go to volvo tuning for any work to be done on his car. He has had it chipped and it has taken the power from 240bhp to 310bhp. I have been to volvo tuning with him and they really know there stuff. It is defo worth the trip down there. There rolling road setup is impressive.

Sorry for the essay, thought this might help.


cheers mate..

Thanks for the info again guys....If it is generic Steve that could be a plan? unsure if they need car or not..

Going to have to decide just go to Dastek along the road and pay the £550 or go to this place??? (£470)..

As I said aswell heard good things about them on all the volvo sites, they do Focus ST's now too as they use a volvo engine..
whitter45
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15th Jul 06 at 06:49   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
Cannot wait to get mine done
mav
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15th Jul 06 at 06:50   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
when yours getting done?

I'm hoping in next few months for mine..
Cybermonkey
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15th Jul 06 at 06:54   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
im agreeing with Dave A here, get it mapped properly on a rolling road, ESPECIALLY considering we are talking about a revvy turbo engine here, you cant afford to run it lean otherwise its blown engine and game over
mav
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15th Jul 06 at 07:44   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
MMmmm decisions and conflicting reports..???
Steve
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15th Jul 06 at 09:34   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cybermonkey
im agreeing with Dave A here, get it mapped properly on a rolling road, ESPECIALLY considering we are talking about a revvy turbo engine here, you cant afford to run it lean otherwise its blown engine and game over


david it doesnt run on fucking carbs like said a remap is just adjustments of the adaptation tables already on the ecu, these will adjust to supply the correct fueling, the only time it wont fuel correctly is when you bring in a major 3rd party change, ie tb;s on a n/a, or a piggy back ecu/superchip
Dave A
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15th Jul 06 at 11:32   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steve


with a knock sensor slight variations in timing arent usually a problem,



and this is where the problem lies with this type of ecu re-programming. One of the most important things when squeezing power form an engine is correct ignition timing. (the point at which the spark plug ignites the compressed fuel/air mixture) this is also affected by cam timing, intake temp, fuel RON, coolant temp etc... modern engines use a 'knock sensor' to sense pre-ignition (igniting the mixture too early in the compression stroke, commonly known as pinking) which means that the engine will not give maximum power.

the knock sensor senses this 'pinking' and tells the ecu to advance or retard the ignition timing to suit. this is how most modern ecu's work because to get maximum power from an engine the ignition timing needs to run as close to the point of pre-ignition as possible.

even if you take 2 identical T4 engines, they will be different. amount of wear will be different, engineering tolerances will be different, cam timing will be different, compression will be different, fuelling will have changed over time etc... I think you get the Idea. Instead of relying on the knock sensor to make allowances for all these differences, why not just map it with the correct parameters to start with?

Heres why:

ecu 'flash' programming is cheap and profitable, very profitable infact.
Ecu mapping takes time, skill, experienced dyno technicians, rolling road time.

Mav, Dasek will actually give you something for your money, a new piggyback ecu. you get time on a rolling road, printouts, ability to re-map it for about £150, ability to remove it and go back to standard wery easily, they are close if you need to go back to them, and more impostantly it will be tailor made for your car.



Steve
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15th Jul 06 at 11:42   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
"even if you take 2 identical T4 engines, they will be different. amount of wear will be different, engineering tolerances will be different, cam timing will be different, compression will be different, fuelling will have changed over time etc... I think you get the Idea. Instead of relying on the knock sensor to make allowances for all these differences, why not just map it with the correct parameters to start with?"

The very point im making, infact. The ECU and sensors etc will adjust to suit. I agree you have to be close'ish with the timing variables otherwise you will get pre ignition, and correctional factors on the timing coming, you want to steer clear of high cf's, on modern days engines its easy enough to come close enough with a generic map to let the ecu do the rest of the adjusting and keep the correctional factors low enough.

Also my main point was this is a map for a turbo engine. The MAIN way you get power from a N/A via chipping is getting the timing and fueling pushed as far as possible before the ecu starts to retard, this is generally why you get fuck all from a remap or any kind of chip on a stock n/a engne, these parameters are pushed quite far my manufactures anyway to obtain opitumum eifficiency.

I agree it becomes more vital to get the best out of a remap for a n/a car if its live.

But for turbo cars its not so vital and you wont really notice any difference.
RS6
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15th Jul 06 at 11:46   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
mav are you gonna get it done?
jr
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15th Jul 06 at 11:46   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
Mav, in all seriousness ring Stu at Motorsport Developments in Blackpool

his prettu much regarded as the best in the country for Fords etc, he's alos done a lot of VAG stuff, and also about the best at Live mapping around

might be worth seeing if he can offer you anything
Steve
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15th Jul 06 at 11:47   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jr
Mav, in all seriousness ring Stu at Motorsport Developments in Blackpool

his prettu much regarded as the best in the country for Fords etc, he's alos done a lot of VAG stuff, and also about the best at Live mapping around

might be worth seeing if he can offer you anything sexual
mav
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15th Jul 06 at 11:55   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
cheers again guys...All good information

Hoping to get it done in the next few months...

TBH think I might take it to Dastek as it's close, less hassle and not much different in price really..

Undecided really though....I know chip tuning do have a good rep in volvo circles too...

You guys know more than me about it and I'm taking all this info in..
Dave A
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15th Jul 06 at 11:55   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
steve, I undersatnd what you are saying. tbh both methods will give good results.

one is better, more practical and a lot more precise.
Steve
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15th Jul 06 at 11:56   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
best thing is to look at REAL LIFE power and torque curve example graphs from both places and make a decision based on that
mav
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15th Jul 06 at 11:57   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
yeah I'm sure the chip tuning site has graphs etc on there and I can always go through and talk to guy at Dastek..I'm in the middle of organising a RR day there anyway..
jr
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15th Jul 06 at 11:58   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
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(7899 ECU variants.)

Below are listed the various ECU revisions that are fitted to your model of car. Each ecu number will have slightly different engine control software to the next due to the designers making small changes during the production life of the car to correct small errors and such like. As a professional remapping company we will ensure we always supply the best revision of software for your ecu and not go for the ''One chip fits all'' option that many of our competitors seem to do as this can lead to small running errors. If you are in any doubt about the suitability of your car for modifying, please dont hesitate to call us on 01253 508400.

Type
Volvo - S40 T4 - 2.0L 16v Turbo
Turbo
E.C.U. Ref : S108212005E
Ori C/Sum (8bit) : D105
Std Bhp :
E.C.U. Brand : Siemens
E.C.U. Type : Sirus 32
BHP Increase : 30
Torque increase :
R.R.P : £450

Turbo
E.C.U. Ref : S108212005H
Ori C/Sum (8bit) : F6F3
Std Bhp :
E.C.U. Brand : Siemens
E.C.U. Type : Sirus 32
BHP Increase : 30
Torque increase :
R.R.P : £450

Turbo
E.C.U. Ref : S110921012C
Ori C/Sum (8bit) : D062
Std Bhp :
E.C.U. Brand : Siemens
E.C.U. Type : Sirus 32
BHP Increase : 30
Torque increase :
R.R.P : £450
Steve
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15th Jul 06 at 11:59   View Garage View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
WTF IS THAT JR
Dave A
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15th Jul 06 at 12:00   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steve

The very point im making, infact. The ECU and sensors etc will adjust to suit. I agree you have to be close'ish with the timing variables otherwise you will get pre ignition, and correctional factors on the timing coming, you want to steer clear of high cf's, on modern days engines its easy enough to come close enough with a generic map to let the ecu do the rest of the adjusting and keep the correctional factors low enough.





the bits in bold are the 'ifs' and 'buts' that would worry me!

what if it wasnt close enough, do they run it on a rolling road with a laptop to see precisely whats going on with the enghine? and then if there is a slight problem do they 'live map' it to resolve the problem?

erm, no in most cases they dont. its just guesswork ecu mapping.
jr
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15th Jul 06 at 12:00   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
C+P from motorsport developments site
mav
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15th Jul 06 at 12:01   View User's Profile U2U Member Reply With Quote
Might give them a call aswell JR, always better to keep options open and get as many different sides as possible..

That says T4 2.0 turbo, it's not it's a T4 1.9 turbo.

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