ed
Member
Registered: 10th Sep 03
User status: Offline
|
On my one I only get it on start up - I think. Never noticed it while driving, but I guess a small ammount could still come out. It has a diesel particulate filter as well as a catalytic convertor and that is suposedly meant to prevent smoke.....
|
Planty02
Member
Registered: 5th Mar 05
Location: Burslem, Stoke-on-Trent
User status: Offline
|
Surely if the diesel engines couldnt compete with the petrol engines then the teams would spend money developing them and would race them.
|
mk4_astra
Member
Registered: 15th Oct 03
Location: aylesbury,bucks
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by dhdev
Idiot? 
Diesels are noisy, even brand spanking new ones clatter and rattle. Diesels DO smell bad, how you can argue that I don't know  . The reason they won LeMans is because the rules were massively bent in their favour, a fact that surely even you cannot argue 
edited to add: This is a discussion about diesel's place in motorsport not the M25. When was the last time you heard a diesel go past and wound down your window to get a better listen, or stood in the middle of the forest at night and watched a diesel spitting flames out the exhaust as it popped and banged, or stood at the top of a hillclimb and played guess the car by the sound of the induction noise. Diesels are not for motorsport.
[Edited on 09-02-2007 by dhdev]
i think you seem to be looking at diesels from the 90's, as i said my mates 330cd he had didnt even sound like a diesel, even on idle it was hard to tel.
what ever car you have, lets see it take on the new 535d m sport and i can assure you would soon stop slating diesels. then its only a remap away from e60 m5 power i realy dont know how you can argue with that
|
Joe
Member
Registered: 20th Jun 04
Location: Hesketh Bank, Lancashire
User status: Offline
|
Still a diesel. Give me a Petrol V8 any day of the week or the sound of a petrol V12.
|
myke
Member
Registered: 7th Feb 01
Location: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire
User status: Offline
|
the Audi R10's were the quietest cars at le mans last year.
they look and sound far more smooth and refined than the petrol cars, and i think the results speak for themselves.
i see the point about it taking away from the excitement slightly, but any advancement in motorsport to make cars quicker aswell as more efficient and cleaner has to be a plus point in my books.
do you suggest all race cars revert to 2 stroke engines so they sound and smell better? 
|
Daimo B
Member
Registered: 20th Mar 00
User status: Offline
|
DHDEV is an idiot, he knows nothing at all about motorsport or tuning.... (ponders on how much the bloke with the comments knows about tuning and motor racing).
I agree totally with DHdev....
Wonder what a F1 car would sound like with a diesel engine.
Oh, can anyone tell me what Derv engine produces great power without the aid of a turbocharger? Now please give me an example of a petrol engine of the same capacity and quote the figures.
Dervs are good for LeMans (even if it was massivly in their favour, new cars, un-explored rules), a petrol engine will never burn as less a juice as a derv, but the fact is, they sound and smell awfull still.
I've heard the 888 Derv astra, thanks i'll keep the VXR with its standard exhaust, sounds infinatly better.....
|
Marc
Member
Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: York
User status: Offline
|
Deeps breaths Daimo deep breaths!
|
Joe
Member
Registered: 20th Jun 04
Location: Hesketh Bank, Lancashire
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by VXR
Oh, can anyone tell me what Derv engine produces great power without the aid of a turbocharger? Now please give me an example of a petrol engine of the same capacity and quote the figures.
Agreed
|
mwg
Member
Registered: 19th Feb 04
Location: South Lakes
User status: Offline
|
For day to day driving I dont see why you would need a petrol car. I am seriously considering getting a diesel next.
|
Daimo B
Member
Registered: 20th Mar 00
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Marc
Deeps breaths Daimo deep breaths!
Im cool, expressing an opinion. I type very very fast.
Matty, post says motorsport, not daily driving. 
[Edited on 09-02-2007 by VXR]
|
mwg
Member
Registered: 19th Feb 04
Location: South Lakes
User status: Offline
|
Fair point
|
Carl
Member
Registered: 9th May 04
Location: Jimmy Bennett's la la land.
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by VXR
Oh, can anyone tell me what Derv engine produces great power without the aid of a turbocharger? Now please give me an example of a petrol engine of the same capacity and quote the figures.
Are turbo chargers illegal or something? don't get the relevence? It's a beneficial component to the output of an engine, are they meant to be left off just because people are set in their ways and prefer the characteristics of a certain fuel?
A fuel is a fuel, surely the focus should be on engineering and what can be done, rather than the smell and the noise etc. "it doesn't smell nice" it's a right bird comment that.
|
Daimo B
Member
Registered: 20th Mar 00
User status: Offline
|
Outright performance figures?
Its only the prototypes that have Derv engines. None of the GT2/3 class have them. Vipers, Porkies etc...
Add a turbocharger to a petrol engine of the same displacement. I.e, take the astra.
150bhp standard, TUNED (888) gives 200bhp, further tuning available.
VXR is 237bhp (or 200bhp in normal spec), TUNED (When i say tuned, i mean a simple remap and exhaust) give upwards of 270....
Im not disputing that Dervs on the track can be made quick. Half of motorsport is the noise, IS the smell, IS the way it drives, and I know Audi would have spent millions developing the Prototype, but its rules around it were a lot less tighter as its an unknown area of motorsport yet.
Could you see the new MotoGP bikes running diesel engines instead of the 800cc's they run? No diesel will ever get anywhere near the performance of those bikes.
A beneficial component, so add one to a petrol car as well. Torque may be lower, but power will be higher.
I've heard that clip of the Audi prototypes, it sounds a right handfull pwoer wise, and even the drivers complained of its short powerband and harsh driving experience. Thats not disputing it goes well, but half the experience of racing is not just how quick the car goes.
|
jr
Member
Registered: 20th May 02
Location: Kent
User status: Offline
|
Diesels are the future, some of the new audi pd's are 
saying diesel will ruin motorsport is like saying 2 stroke would have runined motorsport, because its diffrent
people just dont like change
|
Carl
Member
Registered: 9th May 04
Location: Jimmy Bennett's la la land.
User status: Offline
|
i do agree mostly just putting a different perspective on things, but it's always "add this to that, tune that one as much as that one has been tuned" on here.
You could go on all day, how about this one; "give diesel the development time that petrol has had over the years etc, chances are they wouldn't smoke etc"
all ifs, buts and maybes!I bet the research and development of petrol engines as decades on diesel engines.
|
mk4_astra
Member
Registered: 15th Oct 03
Location: aylesbury,bucks
User status: Offline
|
to be fair my arguements were for an everyday car and i said in my original post i would hate for petrol cars to be wiped out, and petrol engines are still my first choice come to think of it.
thing you cant argue with is how far diesel engines have come
|
MarkM
Member
Registered: 11th Apr 01
Location: Liverpool
User status: Offline
|
If I had a choice...
Everyday car = Got to be diesel...on the road they can be equally as good as petrols yet produce brilliant MPG figures...so why take a petrol over a diesel?
Trackday = Most definately HAS to be a petrol...purely for the noise etc...and the power delivery....
I drive an 06 reg CDTI Astra...and there is no way I would swap it for its comparable Astra Petrol...NO WAY...you would need to be an idiot to do so...its cheaper to run...its NOT noisey....DOES NOT smoke...has very usuable power on the road...CHEAPER insurance too...
Yes the older diesels sound awful...but the new diesels like mine are as quiet as a petrol...they just sound slightly different...you only need to look at the modern day examples of what car manufacturers can produce to know diesel technology has imporved vastly:
Golf GT TDI (150)
Astra SRI 1.9 CDTI (150)
Astra 888 CDTI (200?)
Seat Leon Cupra TDI (150)
^^ All desirable quick cars...
|
whitter45
Member
Registered: 15th Nov 02
Location: Norton
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Carl
quote:
Originally posted by VXR
Oh, can anyone tell me what Derv engine produces great power without the aid of a turbocharger? Now please give me an example of a petrol engine of the same capacity and quote the figures.
ok
Audi A4 1.8 turbo petrol - 163 BHP
Audi a4 2.0 TDI - 170 BHP
Audi A4 2.0 TFSI - 197 BHP
Not much in it now a days
[Edited on 09-02-2007 by whitter45]
|
Butler
Member
Registered: 2nd Jun 05
Location: London
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by jr
Diesels are the future, some of the new audi pd's are
saying diesel will ruin motorsport is like saying 2 stroke would have runined motorsport, because its diffrent
people just dont like change
I dont think thats necesarily true, I look back on the history of motorsport and I can definately see more exciting cars from the past, especially at goodwood, there are aspects you just dont see nowadays. I think diesel is just another step downhill in my opinion.
|
RKS
Member
Registered: 2nd Mar 04
Location: Gloucestershire UK
User status: Offline
|
to be fair motorsport isnt about the sound that comes from the exhaust, the spitting of flames or popping and banging..... (all those things are nice though) what motorsport is about is being the fastest car around the track/stage/strip the spectator experience of watching diesels wont be as good... but to be fair its much more entertaining watching RWD rally cars to 4WD rally cars,
i do agree though that its more entertaining watching petrol cars to diesel ones... but why should the competitors not switch to diesel if the performance is better?
its Evolution... dont be so skeptical about change
|
splatgraphix
Member
Registered: 10th Feb 06
Location: Birkenhead, Merseyside
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by dhdev
Diesels suck. They don't rev, they black smoke, they smell, they sound sheeite and they have sheeeite narrow power/torque bands.
I know a bloke that raced a Lola diesel at LeMans and he wasn't impressed.
You need to wake up, diesels are an affordable car. They do rev and have a hell of a lot of torque for what they are. Yes they smell but so do oil burning petrol cars.
Think you would find that most diesels would leave you standing.
http://www.splat-graphix.co.uk
|
Novaneil
Member
Registered: 26th Oct 06
Location: Leamington Spa
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by dhdev
Diesels suck. They don't rev, they black smoke, they smell, they sound sheeite and they have sheeeite narrow power/torque bands.
I know a bloke that raced a Lola diesel at LeMans and he wasn't impressed.
As much as I also think dhdev is an Idiot
I am 100% behind him on this one!!! A diesel engine is just not and never will be better than a petrol in a fast road or track car. They should all be DESTROYED lol....
And before people start saying "Fuel Costs" yadda yadda yadda... Just Convert your petrol car to LPG as I have....
Hey presto... best of both worlds
|
Novaneil
Member
Registered: 26th Oct 06
Location: Leamington Spa
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by splatgraphix
quote:
Originally posted by dhdev
Diesels suck. They don't rev, they black smoke, they smell, they sound sheeite and they have sheeeite narrow power/torque bands.
I know a bloke that raced a Lola diesel at LeMans and he wasn't impressed.
You need to wake up, diesels are an affordable car. They do rev and have a hell of a lot of torque for what they are. Yes they smell but so do oil burning petrol cars.
Think you would find that most diesels would leave you standing.
dhdev.... Wake up... Wake up..... I can see you've fallen asleep at your PC reading this.
Sorry but your arguments are flawed!!!
Petrol engines REV higher.... FACT
Diesel's produce a lot of Torque because of the Turbo's strapped to them! Strap a turbo to the same size petrol version and you'll get just as much if not more torque!
You think Most diesel's will leave dhdev standing Im guessing your not aware his Nova weighs under 650kg's, has a 160bhp 1.6 in it and runs a 13.8 1/4mile and low 5 sec 0-60 Plus the lad can drive it... which helps. lol
|
Butler
Member
Registered: 2nd Jun 05
Location: London
User status: Offline
|
The thread isnt about economics its about motorsport!
|
Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
|
diesel performance is misleading, you feel faster than you are going
|
