Cosmo
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Registered: 29th Mar 01
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quote:
Originally posted by Nath
I think although alot of Reserves don't get to properly compete, the current systme where by most 'big' clubs loan out youngsters works fine. It's proper football, with real rewards. A reserve team playing in a normal league will devalue it IMO. The likes of Grays Athletic will get trounced by Chelski Reserves.
IMHO it's Premiership managers looking out for themselves again. There is already too much money at the top without the possibilty of their Reserves winning stuff and generating money too.
its not fine though, as you loan them out and then have ZERO control over their day to day development as are being trained by others. Yes they get the games, but then not the training.
And it is looking out for ourselves, but its also looking out for the future of the English squad. Its no surprise that there are some great Spanish and Italian youngsters out there who use this system, yet we have a lack of world class English talent coming through.
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Mather.16v
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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
quote:
Originally posted by Mather.16v
tbf man utd and im sure the rest are bring threw alot of young talent, maybe not the biggest premiership stars ronaldo's drogba's for instance but from man utd the likes of Jones, McShane, Evans, Foster are imo good enough (maybe in time) to play at premiership and championship level
yeah, we all have them coming through. But its a case of those kind of players needing proper football experience between youth levels and first team (like Foster now), and they just dont get that, and that probably prevents a lot of the development of players who could potentially be great.
i guess i kinda missed the point with that post! i agree with what benitez is saying though, we do need better competition for the development of the foster type of player
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Cosmo
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quote:
Originally posted by Mather.16v
i guess i kinda missed the point with that post! i agree with what benitez is saying though, we do need better competition for the development of the foster type of player
exactly. Imagine how much further forward keeps like Foster (or Carson for us) would be if they could of been getting competitive football experience for the last few seasons aswell as training with the top coaches and facilities.
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Marc
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I think Foster coming back could signal the end for Kuszczak
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Cosmo
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just reading some rules on the Spanish set up....
The 'B' teams cannot be promoted. If a player is named in the first team squad they cannot play in the 'B' side. If a player is called up from the 'B' side they cannot come back down and play for them.
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Nath
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
quote:
Originally posted by Nath
I think although alot of Reserves don't get to properly compete, the current systme where by most 'big' clubs loan out youngsters works fine. It's proper football, with real rewards. A reserve team playing in a normal league will devalue it IMO. The likes of Grays Athletic will get trounced by Chelski Reserves.
IMHO it's Premiership managers looking out for themselves again. There is already too much money at the top without the possibilty of their Reserves winning stuff and generating money too.
its not fine though, as you loan them out and then have ZERO control over their day to day development as are being trained by others. Yes they get the games, but then not the training.
And it is looking out for ourselves, but its also looking out for the future of the English squad. Its no surprise that there are some great Spanish and Italian youngsters out there who use this system, yet we have a lack of world class English talent coming through.
I'm club before country so my concerns for Luton come before England.
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Rachel H
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Absolute bollocks, just another thing for the big 4 to get even bigger.
I think its disgusting.
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Nath
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quote:
Originally posted by Rachel H
Absolute bollocks, just another thing for the big 4 to get even bigger.
I think its disgusting.
I was waiting for some lower league back up!
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Cosmo
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quote:
Originally posted by Nath
I'm club before country so my concerns for Luton come before England.
would playing agaisnt better opposition not attract more fans, and possibly more TV revenue, etc. for your club though?
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Nath
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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
quote:
Originally posted by Nath
I'm club before country so my concerns for Luton come before England.
would playing agaisnt better opposition not attract more fans, and possibly more TV revenue, etc. for your club though?
The opposition is already good enough.
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Hammer
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That seemed like a cry from a guy that has had a frustrated season supporting his team Nath 
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Cosmo
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quote:
Originally posted by Nath
The opposition is already good enough.
but we wouldnt be able to go up, so it makes little difference how good a team we are!
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Rachel H
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It would then lower the value of the lower leagues though, its a shit idea which only the top 4 clubs think would be a good idea, TBH I could see it happening though as the top 4 get what they want 9 times out of 10.
Might as well get rid of the rest of the teams in the other leagues and just have Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool & Arsenal, thats who the media, FA and everyone else only seem to care about.
Get rid of them into some super league and be done with it.
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Danny P
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Shite Idea IMO.
If a club values a player so much then why dont they put them in the first team??
Most youth team players who play for the "big 4" will have been at that club since they were 6/7 years old. If any of them teams then have to go abroad to bring in new youthful tallent then somone down at the academy's clearly aint doing there jobs right.
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Marc
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The thing is, youth and reserve players occasionally get called up to the first team for Cup games and most friendlies. This imo is more beneficial to the individual, and possibly the club as a whole, as it can give the team a differant angle, and show the potential of the player than have them play in a mickey mouse B division.
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Hammer
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quote:
Originally posted by Danny P
If a club values a player so much then why dont they put them in the first team??
Even if you're the most talented player in the world at 16, there is no substitute for experience. The Premiership is such that bringing in young players for them to make and subsequently learn from their mistakes is a non starter.
That is why Wenger has went down the route of breeding them in the Carling Cup and you can see how much that is demeaning that particular competition.
[Edited on 20-03-2007 by Hammer]
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Danny P
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quote:
Originally posted by Hammer
quote:
Originally posted by Danny P
If a club values a player so much then why dont they put them in the first team??
Even if you're the most talented player in the world at 16, there is no substitute for experience. The Premiership is such that bringing in young players for them to make and subsequently learn from their mistakes is a non starter.
They get match experience playing against lower league teams, that why they loan them out 
Also, there are plenty of young players who play in the Premiership, Rooney is a perfect example of this, didn't see him pissing about in the reserves did you? If your good enough your old enough IMO.
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Rachel H
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Whats wrong with loaning the players out for a month at a time? Beneficial to both clubes then.
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Cosmo
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quote:
Originally posted by Danny P
Also, there are plenty of young players who play in the Premiership, Rooney is a perfect example of this, didn't see him pissing about in the reserves did you? If your good enough your old enough IMO.
Players like Rooney come about once in a blue moon, how many have been missed out on as they didnt get the right experience and development when they were younger?!!
Also, Rooney was at a club which, at the time, could afford to throw a 16yr old on the pitch. There arent many top sides that can do this though.
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Cosmo
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quote:
Originally posted by Rachel H
Whats wrong with loaning the players out for a month at a time? Beneficial to both clubes then.
you have no control over their training. All they get then is the experience of the match.
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Danny P
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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
quote:
Originally posted by Danny P
Also, there are plenty of young players who play in the Premiership, Rooney is a perfect example of this, didn't see him pissing about in the reserves did you? If your good enough your old enough IMO.
Players like Rooney come about once in a blue moon, how many have been missed out on as they didnt get the right experience and development when they were younger?!!.
Surley the develpment should come form the coaches down at the academys, and experience can be gained from playing for lower league teams if they choose to go out on loan. If a club was concerned about that a player wouldnt develop as much by going out on loan they shouldnt let him go, and if he does go, monitor it and then recall him if neccessary.
Youth teams can play against first teams in training, this will give them experience and help them develop.
If this happend then it would be an insult to all the lower league teams who struggle & hard to achieve promotion up the league's. Just another example of the "big 4" trying to take over football in this country not giving a shite about anyone else but thereselves 
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Cosmo
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quote:
Originally posted by Danny P
Surley the develpment should come form the coaches down at the academys, and experience can be gained from playing for lower league teams if they choose to go out on loan. If a club was concerned about that a player wouldnt develop as much by going out on loan they shouldnt let him go, and if he does go, monitor it and then recall him if neccessary.
Youth teams can play against first teams in training, this will give them experience and help them develop.
Development does come from the acadamies, but to gain experience they need to go on loan, and then these coaches have no day to day input which they still need. Its a catch22 at the moment, keep and develop with coaches, or send on loan and give experience. By having a more competitive reserve league it would fill both of these needs.
And youth teams do play against them yeah, but do you think they are allowed to go all out against them?! Or that first team players try all out aswell?!
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Marc
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End of the day it works and it doesn't. Beckham went to Preston and had a brilliant stint at United. Rossi on the other hand had an unsuccessful loan at Newcastle and would have being better of at United.
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Danny P
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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
By having a more competitive reserve league it would fill both of these needs.
I wouldnt have a problem with this at all, make a seperate reserve league that reflects the current proper league (IE All Prem teams together, all League 1 together etc) then the reserve's just move and down with the 1st team. Thats a good idea and I wouldnt have a problem with it at all.
Its when people start saying they should join the proper league as a "B" team, that is making a mockery of the lower league teams IMO.
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Cosmo
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TBH Im sure there would be demand for watching reserve games on tele if all teams in it took it seriously, and then in return it worth while having one for money, gets more competitive, etc.
But its getting a large number of compeititve reserve teams sorted to attract the viewers and money thats the problem.
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