Nic Barnes
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Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
Yeah I'm picking on Steve, quote me.
I'm making the point that it can be tested. If they've got rules for it then it would make sense to be able to enforce them.
And the list of ECUs to test maps from is only the same as the list of ECUs which can be mapped in the first place, and I happen to know there's a chap down the road sells the gear to do it as I've been there.
So yes, its possible to detect a remap.
Whether they would care, yes, doubtful. But they can.
im not doubting they can, i just find it difficult to believe they would even bother. ive seen many ecus plugged in to laptops before ian. seen many fiddled about with. ive yet to see an insurance company do it however.
maybe im wrong, although im not about your victimisation of steve. thats just pathetic from someone in your position.
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
Yeah I'm picking on Steve, quote me.
I'm making the point that it can be tested. If they've got rules for it then it would make sense to be able to enforce them.
And the list of ECUs to test maps from is only the same as the list of ECUs which can be mapped in the first place, and I happen to know there's a chap down the road sells the gear to do it as I've been there.
So yes, its possible to detect a remap.
Whether they would care, yes, doubtful. But they can.
to detect a remap, apart fro mdriving the car and noting obvious differences one would have to download the entire ecu rom, and compare probably in hex aswell, i doubt they would go to those levels. This is not any school boy science presumption either, this is based on someone who works in insurance and has to find these things out for there job
[Edited on 03-12-2007 by Steve]
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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Like fuck I'd let any one plug something into my ecu to check the map... 
if they accidently flashed it or fucked it up while reading it could leave my ECU dead.
not gonna happen.
Stop all scare mongering about it... All that it's there for is to stop the many 'Race cars' trying to test their car there, which is dangerous as Race car = SUPER QUICK / SUPER GRIPPY and everyone else is dordling along / bikes don't see it etc.
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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OK, email the guy who wrote that press release and tell him to change the rules so its clear that remaps are fine.
Your insurance friend should know that independent damage assessors are brought in to assess damage and therefore it shouldn't be too hard to call in an independent tuner to assess whether a car is tuned.
I agree, they may not care.
And I agree with Paul, they may not be allowed to do so anyway.
Please bear in mind that there is a large amount of local expertise in that area of Germany which includes this capability.
[Edited on 03-12-2007 by Ian]
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Nic Barnes
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Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
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i am baring in mind you are waffling and making yourself sound even more pathetic.
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jr
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Registered: 20th May 02
Location: Kent
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul_J
I think most of the people worried about it, has never been to the nurburgring
They're so relaxed over there it's awesome... Over here everything is strict and guidelines... over there, they have rules, but no one really cares if you break them / hopes everyone has enough sense!
For example... you can walk ALL around the track, nothing is limited to you... infact you can just walk straight onto the track anywhere if you wish (and wanted to die!)
If that was in the UK, you'd have kids putting stones on the track to fuck up the cars, but thankfully germany is more civalised lol.
Also your 'not allowed' video camera's, but I never got stopped doing my vids.
There's a whole load of legislation about it, most of it is just there to cover themselves if something happens... not to hamper anyone's enjoyment.
I would not be worried in the slightest taking my car out... It practically looks standard on the outside.
paul correct me if im worng but you have been out there once ?
people that have been going there twice a year for the last 10 years said this would at some point be the case, mainly because of uk people taking sub 1k shitters and fucking it up, they talk to people that live around the area, and here things months before people on internet forums do
its rules inforced for the 2008 season, which hasnt started yet, so i fail to see how you reckon it will be "fine"
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Nic Barnes
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Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
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slip them some money for some bratwurst and they wont give a shit dallas
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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another post ruined by muppetsport
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Nic Barnes
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Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
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there is no proof ive ever ruined a post (moderators delete it all)
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ScottBeck
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Registered: 7th Dec 06
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire
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so is it now the case that you need certificates of approval for any mods from standard form? how would you get a certificate for a engine convertion on here like many others?
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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engineers report at a guess
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Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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An MOT certificate would be fine im sure for an engine conversion.
TUV is just a "standards" to enforce a strict quality control for a product. Mantzel boxes were TUV approved.
The items are sent off for testing to ensure they are sufficiant for road use. There-fore im sure taking over a valied MOT certificate should be fine. Becuase it allows you to drive your car legally on the road.
Although this is thoughts, and we know how fanatical the germans are about everything.
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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quote:
Originally posted by jr
quote:
Originally posted by Paul_J
I think most of the people worried about it, has never been to the nurburgring
They're so relaxed over there it's awesome... Over here everything is strict and guidelines... over there, they have rules, but no one really cares if you break them / hopes everyone has enough sense!
For example... you can walk ALL around the track, nothing is limited to you... infact you can just walk straight onto the track anywhere if you wish (and wanted to die!)
If that was in the UK, you'd have kids putting stones on the track to fuck up the cars, but thankfully germany is more civalised lol.
Also your 'not allowed' video camera's, but I never got stopped doing my vids.
There's a whole load of legislation about it, most of it is just there to cover themselves if something happens... not to hamper anyone's enjoyment.
I would not be worried in the slightest taking my car out... It practically looks standard on the outside.
paul correct me if im worng but you have been out there once ?
people that have been going there twice a year for the last 10 years said this would at some point be the case, mainly because of uk people taking sub 1k shitters and fucking it up, they talk to people that live around the area, and here things months before people on internet forums do
its rules inforced for the 2008 season, which hasnt started yet, so i fail to see how you reckon it will be "fine"
Firstly... that's stupid... none of their legislation will stop anyone taking a 1k shitter there and crashing it ... providing it's standard 
The legislation isn't there to stop people with modded cars going... They'd not make ANY money. It's just to give them more control over how they run their business... Now they have the power to refuse people entry to the track. Now they have the power to stop cars they believe are un road worthy to go around. Now they have the power to stop Overly tuned up cars such as fully prepped race cars from going around.
All of this is a good thing.
What I'm saying is, don't worry about it... they're not passing this legislation to stop everyone going around, as they'd make no money. I'd say 80% if not more, of the cars that go around that track have mods!
What I'm saying is, they're pretty lax about everything. Think about a track day at uk, to go on track, you have to provide a driving license, usually mot, sign a disclaimer about risk and attend a briefing.
At nurburgring, you just walk up to a ticket machine, pay your money, it gives you a ticket with 'laps' on... you then drive to the barrier and out you go.
See the difference. It'll maybe only make a difference if you have a crash? but apart from that, I can't see it hampering the 'average' person.
I've read ben lovejoys site and nordshliefe forum and they're not worried in the slightest. So  to your mates? I'll be going again at least once maybe twice next year.
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Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
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I get what Pauls saying.
As you say, they are purley covering their own asses in a politically correct eastern world.
Sending out a 600bhp track prepped porsche 2 min after a standard 1.2 16v Corsa is definatly going to mean, the porkie will catch up....
Coming out of a blind bend/crest, if the porsche rams the Corsa, its a big mess....
Ban that race car from entering the track for a cheap track setup session, less chance of an impact (imagine if it was a coach that porsche came flying behined)....
Its just about controlling what they've got, not about ruining anything for anyone.
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Nic Barnes
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Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
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maybe they should run a class of car at a certain time of day say?
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ScottBeck
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Registered: 7th Dec 06
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire
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surely worth taking a few bits out with you though mate be a waste getting there and not being able to go round,
although i see there thinking in being able to stop un road worthy cars a fully prepped race cars,
paul how much did you pay for a lap out there mate? still wana go out there next year even with this new legislation
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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Was about 14 euro's but it's gone up to 19 euro's I believe for 2008 
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ScottBeck
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Registered: 7th Dec 06
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire
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cheers mate 
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jr
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Registered: 20th May 02
Location: Kent
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul_J
Firstly... that's stupid... none of their legislation will stop anyone taking a 1k shitter there and crashing it ... providing it's standard
The legislation isn't there to stop people with modded cars going... They'd not make ANY money. It's just to give them more control over how they run their business... Now they have the power to refuse people entry to the track. Now they have the power to stop cars they believe are un road worthy to go around. Now they have the power to stop Overly tuned up cars such as fully prepped race cars from going around.
All of this is a good thing.
What I'm saying is, don't worry about it... they're not passing this legislation to stop everyone going around, as they'd make no money. I'd say 80% if not more, of the cars that go around that track have mods!
What I'm saying is, they're pretty lax about everything. Think about a track day at uk, to go on track, you have to provide a driving license, usually mot, sign a disclaimer about risk and attend a briefing.
At nurburgring, you just walk up to a ticket machine, pay your money, it gives you a ticket with 'laps' on... you then drive to the barrier and out you go.
See the difference. It'll maybe only make a difference if you have a crash? but apart from that, I can't see it hampering the 'average' person.
I've read ben lovejoys site and nordshliefe forum and they're not worried in the slightest. So to your mates? I'll be going again at least once maybe twice next year.
there stoping people who mod cars with shitty parts and bodged parts, then go and take on the most challanging tarmac circuit in the world ? which is what i said
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SAL
Premium Member
Registered: 19th Dec 05
Location: Radlett, Hertfordshire
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there stoping people who mod cars with shitty parts and bodged parts.
not 99% then really
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jr
Member
Registered: 20th May 02
Location: Kent
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FFS Ok, alot of you and myself will have parts on our cars which are not tuv approved, and therefore IF pulled up on, may be not allowed out
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DJMartin07
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Registered: 1st Feb 07
Location: Bedford/
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I understand it, but why do we have to go with European rules, in my opinion we would be a better country if we weren't part of the EU.
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
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German circuit with German rules?
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DJMartin07
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Registered: 1st Feb 07
Location: Bedford/
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It's a bit crule there, as my tutor at college has a Nissan 200sx S14, and he went round the Nurburgring and crashed and as you are technically now not insured when you go on it, he had to pay for the damage on his car(luckily he is a Panel Beater and sprayer) and he also had to pay £500 for a new crash barrier.
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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quote:
Originally posted by DJMartin07
It's a bit crule there, as my tutor at college has a Nissan 200sx S14, and he went round the Nurburgring and crashed and as you are technically now not insured when you go on it, he had to pay for the damage on his car(luckily he is a Panel Beater and sprayer) and he also had to pay £500 for a new crash barrier.
how is that cruel??
He crashed his car... who should pay for the damage HIM!!!
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