mwg
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Registered: 19th Feb 04
Location: South Lakes
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quote:
Originally posted by Stevie B
look nice but the weave looks f**ked at the end....
I thought it looked a bit odd at the end but I am not that up on carbon fibre parts to know if thats normal or not? Is the one in the pic the one with the film on the top of fibreglass?
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Martin_C
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Registered: 27th Jun 03
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland
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they might fit like a bag of shite.
did they say they'd do a one off gsi bumper and never do another? cos the cost and work involved in making the moulds for the autoclave would be huge for one bumper.
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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looks like film stuck on to me 
[Edited on 14-02-2008 by Steve]
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RichR
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Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
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what are you on about film on top of fibreglass?
it'll have a single layer of Biaxially woven Carbon as the first lay, then backed with chop strand mat fibreglass.
Thats not a bodge way of doing it tbh, full carbon is only for the real weight saving gains, but 90% of the time people buy it to look good and have the carbon look without the expense of a full carbon panel. These are in no way carbon look film, carbon stickers or painted with grey and black squares. They use genuine C.F; they should be lighter than standard steel panels, but won't be "as" light as full carbon.
[Edited on 14-02-2008 by LiVe LeE]
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RichR
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However I would like to see them up close to see what they've done around the edges as the twill doesnt appear to flow to the panel edge, nor onto the mounting faces
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Steve
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so its just a fibre glass wing with carbon fiber layer on top?
so in other words, its no better then a fibreglass wing other then it looks like carbon fibre?
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RichR
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Yeah basically, although he says he also offers a full carbon wing, which I'd be interested to see.
I'm guessing those in the photos are the glass backed carbon ones, and thats why the edges have the smooth black appearence. With full carbon, the twill would have to be all over
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Martin_C
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Registered: 27th Jun 03
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland
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pretty much steve. fibreglass is just as light, just a shame you need 3 times as much to make it strong enough.
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ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
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quote:
Originally posted by Stevie B
look nice but the weave looks f**ked at the end....
That's because you're meant to paint it.
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ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
so its just a fibre glass wing with carbon fiber layer on top?
so in other words, its no better then a fibreglass wing other then it looks like carbon fibre?
Well not really. It's a common technique to layer fibreglass with carbon to get certain properties in a composite. Or to make it look pretty.
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ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin_C
pretty much steve. fibreglass is just as light, just a shame you need 3 times as much to make it strong enough.
Not true.
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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whats to stop someone sticking carbon fibre film on it and laquering over it? im sure it would fool a lot of people
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ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
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It would be steel on the back.
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RichR
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Registered: 17th Oct 01
Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
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carbon film doesnt look nor is carbon fibre, its vinyl painted with black and grey squares
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Martin_C
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Location: Ayrshire, Scotland
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quote:
Originally posted by ed
quote:
Originally posted by Martin_C
pretty much steve. fibreglass is just as light, just a shame you need 3 times as much to make it strong enough.
Not true.
so a 3mm piece of carbon fibre is the same strength as a 3mm piece of fibreglass, ok 
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Kathryn W
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Registered: 12th Oct 03
Location: Widnes, Cheshire
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Wings you say
I know someone that may be interested in these also...
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ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin_C
quote:
Originally posted by ed
quote:
Originally posted by Martin_C
pretty much steve. fibreglass is just as light, just a shame you need 3 times as much to make it strong enough.
Not true.
so a 3mm piece of carbon fibre is the same strength as a 3mm piece of fibreglass, ok
You do know that there are a lot of different types of fibreglass don't you. Not just chopped strand matting.
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RichR
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Registered: 17th Oct 01
Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin_C
quote:
Originally posted by ed
quote:
Originally posted by Martin_C
pretty much steve. fibreglass is just as light, just a shame you need 3 times as much to make it strong enough.
Not true.
so a 3mm piece of carbon fibre is the same strength as a 3mm piece of fibreglass, ok
The problem lies with the fact that people generalise Fibreglass. Fibreglass or more technically Glass Reinforced Plastic [or Polymer] is available in hundreds of forms, all of which have varying thicknesses, weaves and contructional methods and assosciated with this have varying strength, mass and thickness properties.
The three main types of GRP are Chop strand matt [CSM], Wovens and unidriectionals. Chops are distributed by weight, you normally get denominations of 150grams per square metre upto 1500gsm; chops are made up of varying lengths of chopped up glass strands, compressed or chemically bonded to form a mat.. Wovens are in bi-axially, tri-axially or quad-axially woven formations. Uni directionals are tapes where all of the glss run in the same direction.
Further to this you get surface tissues, duomats, combi mats, needle mats and far more al lof which have different purposes.
A duomat or woven mat can be as strong if not stronger than Carbon - however it will be heavier and thicker.
Carbon is approximately 5 times as strong as steel for the same thickness or in other words 5 times lighter than steel for the same strength.
Carbon tends to only come in one form, Biaxially Woven rovings 
[Edited on 14-02-2008 by LiVe LeE]
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RichR
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Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
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and P40 is not Fibreglass; it is candy floss mixed with pink cum or as we call it in the industry "Hairy Bog". It is heavy, has no real strength and we only use it in mould construction to fillet corners and radii. It has no place in actual builds.
[Edited on 14-02-2008 by LiVe LeE]
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RichR
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Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
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and thats why complicated shapes can end up looking cack if made with carbon. The biaxial weave doesn't allow it to go round curves very well, especialy curves in two planes. On a complicated carbon composite structure, you'll see dozens of creases in any curved areas. I'f you look at that wing in the pictures, you can see the weave wobble as the twills pull apart or tension as the go round the curve of the panel.
Also Carbon is shit in impact, it's incredibly weak in head on collisions hence why when an F1 car has a big smash the components literally disintegrate into small sharp shards. Its only strong in two directions, along the X and Y axis on which the fibres are orientated - it is not strong in the Z direction and as such if you hi it with a hammer in the centre of a panel, you would be likely to smash it like a mirror
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Dave A
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Registered: 10th Dec 03
Location: County Durham
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think live lee has OWNED this thread
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Stu_22
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: Luton
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I want them to do a roof skin. I'm tempeted to buy a big'ish sheet to see how well it will bend into the corners. I think its on the the front ones that would have to bend a bit on
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Novaneil
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Registered: 26th Oct 06
Location: Leamington Spa
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I've so got to get me some of these!!!  They look awesome.
I noticed the performance trim website isn't updated with them yet. Was about to order a load of bits off there... will wait for these wings as well now me thinks 
www.performance-trim.com
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Stu_22
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: Luton
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They are available now, I just ordered a set of doorcards and he tried to sell me the wings as well but I could afford them
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CorsAsh
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Registered: 19th Apr 02
Location: Munich
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave A
think live lee has OWNED this thread
What do you expect of a Naval Architect?
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