Jambo
Member
Registered: 8th Sep 01
Location: Maidenhead, Drives: VXR Arctic
User status: Offline
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jr
Member
Registered: 20th May 02
Location: Kent
User status: Offline
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RC Developments- Our Troubles
I know there is a lot to read here, but it tells the full story of what we have been through thanks to RC Developments.
We asked RC to build us a Time Attack capable car from our standard Evo 8 FQ400. Obviously with the car being a 400 we were anxious to use what we thought were the best in the business. How wrong we were to make that assumption.
The car was delivered to RC in feb 2007 with an initial timescale for completion of approximately 3-4 month. Initially the car was to be running the 600 package, then was changed to the 700 package, and extras such as suspension setup, roll cage etc were added onto the spec list.
The timeline dragged onto September 2007 which is where I became involved in the whole saga as Russell’s friend, and suspicions were aroused at the time. No work had been done to the car and the excuse was put down to the Hollinger gear set causing the delay, and RC insisted that they did not start work on any of their projects for customers until all parts were in stock and the job could be completed in one go.
We constantly chased up RC about the gearbox, and were told that it was Hollinger causing the delay. We again gave RC the benefit of the doubt who kept giving us promises and excuses, but because me and Russell were constantly busy in our own personal lives, we didn’t chase them as much as we should have.
February 2008 came and we decided that enough was enough. The car had been in RC now a whole year, and no work had been completed at all. So after discussions between me and Russell we decided to pay RC an un-planned visit.
On our arrival at RC we were as usual greeted by Danny O’Hara who was quick to talk to us. We wanted to see the car and find out what parts were at RC ready for the car. We were ushered away from the workshop and away from the car, which I wasn’t having and I walked over to the car which was on one of the 2 poster lifts high in the air, with cars all around it so it was virtually impossible to get anywhere near the car. We were always told that apart from the turbocharger and manifold which RC had sold to a customer on our behalf, that the engine, gearbox and the car was totally intact. On inspection of the car the engine, gearbox, intercooler, radiator, transfer box, exhaust and more parts were missing.
We questioned RC about this and they told us that the engine had infact been removed and that they were storing it. We then asked to see the engine to tally up the engine numbers against the V5 document which we had brought with us (fq400’s have the engine number on the v5 where most evo’s I have encountered just have “unknown” on the v5). It was then that Danny changed his mind again and said that the head had been sent off to be worked on and the block was bottom end was stripped and about to be worked on. We yet again gave them the benefit of the doubt, and a revised timetable was given.
Yet again false promises and dates that came and past went by, so I decided that we needed to know what the hold up was. I personally contacted Hollinger in Australia and enquired as to what was happening with the status of the gear set for our car, which had been on “back order” allegedly through RC for the last 11 months. It was then that Hollinger to their credit were open and honest with us and told us the true story.
RC had a large outstanding bill that had not been paid, and was from some considerable time previous to this, and that they were refusing to supply RC with any more parts. They also told us that the gear sets that RC had ordered had been sold to other parties because RC had not settled the bill. We know of at least 2 other people that ordered these gear sets through RC and never received them.
We then confronted RC in person and put the facts to them. We had written proof from Hollinger of this, and we had spoken to the Head of Customer Relations and the Accounts Manager on the telephone who had confirmed what we had been told by email.
Obviously RC had nowhere to go and Danny at that point broke down in tears and admitted that there were no gearboxes and that he had indeed stolen and sold the engine, gearbox and other parts from the car.
We then had to come up with a solution as we had a car that Russell had bought from new that he had trusted RC with, and he had trusted them with a considerably large amount of money as well. We drafted an agreement which was signed by Danny on behalf of RC scheduling work and timescale and the car was completed 1am on the day of time attack round 1.
The one exception on the agreement was that we didn’t have the Hollinger gear set that had been paid for, and in place we had a temporary solution in the way of a Drenth gear set, and we were given promises by RC that they were going to sort out the situation with Hollinger and get us the gear set that we had paid for by the Knockhill second round of time attack.
On picking up the car on the day of round 1 we noticed that there was quite a lot of damage to the car! There were 2 dents in the roof that lined up with where the roll cage had been fitted, which they totally denied and tried to fob us off on. There were also scuffs to the carbon splitter, small dents on the o/s/f, o/s/r, and n/s/r doors and one of the door handles had been “broken”. We obviously raised the issues and it was promised that they would put them right, and also roll the rear arches which they had not done as requested. On the day of round one of time attack 2008 at donnington, the car failed in spectacular fashion and dropped oil all over the track, pit lane (and my brand new trainers! Lol) and pits. We obviously didn’t know what had failed so we trailered up the car and headed off home. The car was returned to RC 2 days later for repair and was collected by us 3 weeks later. We were told that the oil pump had failed and in addition to that the head had cracked, so there was a new oil pump, head gasket and complete new head fitted. The bodywork issues had not been done at all apart from the door handle and the arches had been done in a fashion. They had been hammered instead of rolled, and fillered over and painted. There was overspray all over the doors and rear wings. Keep in mind this is an FQ400 we are talking about! Obviously we were not happy and it was raised with RC and we were again told that it would be sorted out in time, so we yet again gave them our trust and left it with them.
Knockhill round 2 came and no gear set was delivered. We competed at knockhill and it was noticed that the engine was smoking a lot. We were told that all RC’s stroker builds used a fair bit of oil and smoked. As the car seemed to be running fine and the power was there we dismissed it. Silverstone round 3 came and we hit major problems with the car. The smoking had got worse and we had problems with the car not boosting properly so we couldn’t compete competitively. Again we were told that it was a trait of the stroker engine that it used oil and smoked a lot.
As we were having problems with brakes (or lack of them) at knockhill and Silverstone we decided that we needed better brakes, so we ordered and paid for ap racing front and rear kits and an extra set of wheels. We were again totally fobbed off and only received to this day the smaller disced front kit. We paid for the 364 front kits and the rears, and another set of rota gtr alloys. We were given excuse after excuse and we swallowed it and gave them chance after chance. Lost deliveries, wrong tracking numbers, having to have brackets made up for the callipers etc etc. It just went on and on. It came to round 4 of time attack and oulton park and the evo was running worse than ever. Major boosting problems and smoking again, but we ran and finished quite respectable considering the problems we had. Again, we were continued to be fobbed off with excuses about the gearbox, brakes and wheels.
Not long after Round 4 I was involved in a serious car accident and was out of the scene for 6 weeks whilst I was in hospital. Russell returned the car to RC to have the engine checked over and have the boosting problem sorted out, and it was given a clean bill of health, so Russell decided to run at round 5 at brands hatch. It was there that the engine failed totally.
The car was returned to RC and not long after I came out of hospital and got involved again. We knew something was imminent with RC and immediately pulled the car back out again, fearing for the car. In the 3 weeks that RC had the car, all they had done was take off the rocker cover (and loose it!) and put a few intake pipes in the boot. The car had just been left in the rain with the engine exposed with no cover on, and was in effect left to rot. This was the end of the line as far as we were concerned. At the same time the whole Danny saga had unfolded.
We made the decision there and then that we would never allow the car back into RC, and negotiations took place with Clive as to what to do next. We had the engine stripped completely by another Evo specialist who is involved in time attack, and he uncovered some absolutely shocking discoveries.
The specialist crank had actually snapped between 3 and 4 on the webbing, no.1 piston had hit the head and there was debris in the cylinder, but more worryingly no.3 cylinder was a complete mess. There were scores and pits on the cylinder and the honing was a complete mess. Not uniform with the other cylinders. It was obvious now this was why the car had been smoking so much. This had been like this for some time, and there were no marks on the piston, head or any debris that had caused it visible. We returned to RC and confronted Clive with the facts, who flatly denied any knowledge. In a nutshell, the engine had been thrown back together after donnington when it failed. He eventually agreed to build us a new engine as it was RC that was at fault, and it was left at that. We were told 4-6 weeks, which brought us upto last week, and again we were fobbed off with excuses. They could not find an Evo8 block, they found one and was waiting for it etc etc.. It was just as before. Then Monday 20th October came and it emerged that RC was no more. We contacted Clive directly who in effect told us that there was nothing he could do, and that he would not be able to build us an engine anymore. It is totally obvious that this was all planned and they in effect blagged us up until the day that they knew that they were going to fold.
We yet again travelled over to Warrington at 10pm Monday 20th October to try and talk to Clive, and meet with Danny and see what he could possibly do. Clive was nowhere to be seen either at his home address or his mothers address, and he was not answering the phone. We then proceeded to see Danny at his home address and he has told us a completely different story saying that he has been used as a “scapegoat” and that all that has gone on was planned. Obviously I am not here to speculate as to what really happened, just tell the story of what has happened to us thanks to RC.
On Tuesday 21st October 2008 we had a conversation with Clive on the phone, and he admitted that the engine had been bodged back together after Donnington round 1 of time attack, and that it had been repaired sub-standard.
We are in a situation where we have a race car with no engine and a box of bits.
We paid for a gearbox we never received, brakes, wheels, sustained damage to the car, been constantly fobbed off and lied to.
With absolutely no exaggeration, it has ruined mine and russells lives. For the last year the only topic of conversation has been RC, Danny, and Clive etc etc.
We wanted to have a race car to enjoy, to go out and race, to do track days and just enjoy ourselves, and we in effect got 18 months of turmoil from start to present. RC had the car for a whole year, and did absolutely no work on it apart from steal and sell off parts.
Now we learn that conveniently Clive and some other workers have moved in at car planet and are being employed by max, which is very convenient. Clive is still trying to keep his reputation and start again over at car planet, but he has admitted to shoddy workmanship, and lying to us.
This whole situation is not just Danny; it is the whole of RC from start to finish. I would urge ANYONE who is looking to deal with anyone that was previously involved with RC to walk away. There are plenty of other evo specialists out there who are more than capable of working on your pride and joy.
Absolutely everything accounted above (there is still A LOT missing from it) is provable if needed and we have copies of agreements, photographic evidence, reports etc etc to back everything up totally.
Even when the trouble at RC started, we came on here and defended them thinking that they would put things right. We have from the start been open with them, and given them our money, car and trust, and they have totally abused it.
To put a monetary figure on what has happened I would estimate that it would be circa £40000 that we are out of pocket over this.
That’s our story. How we are going to get to time attack next year I have no idea whatsoever, but I’m sure we will be back and better than ever. We have a new tuner on board now who knows the full situation and is working with us and has been absolutely brilliant, and we look forward to working with them in the future and for some time to come.
Thank you for reading and hope to see some of the great people we met in time attack this year again next year!
Russell & Norm
Time Attack Car #38
Team FQ400
www.teamfq400.co.uk
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DaveB
Member
Registered: 29th Dec 00
Location: Huddersfield
User status: Offline
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The pictures are awful of that chaps evo8 
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Daimo B
Member
Registered: 20th Mar 00
User status: Offline
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Linky?
Theres always more to what the company owner will want to say about.
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Graham88
Member
Registered: 16th Apr 07
Location: South East Kent Drives: E46 M3
User status: Offline
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Got the pictures to show Dave? Sounds absolutely shocking representation of a so called reputable company.
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DaveB
Member
Registered: 29th Dec 00
Location: Huddersfield
User status: Offline
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[QUOTE=cossie1;2301049]
What he dropped off:
What he got back 6 months later:
 [/QUOTE]
[Edited on 22-10-2008 by DaveB]
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FruitBooTeR
Member
Registered: 18th Jan 07
Location: Wolverhampton Drives: S15
User status: Offline
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Just read all that its terrible.
Its just Discussing how some companies act!. £40,000 out of pocket  I would not be happy, I hope those guys will try and get something back but do they have a leg to stand on?
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Graham88
Member
Registered: 16th Apr 07
Location: South East Kent Drives: E46 M3
User status: Offline
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Shocking
You can see how long it had been left outside by the surface rust everywhere.
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jr
Member
Registered: 20th May 02
Location: Kent
User status: Offline
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The pics arent the same car as that big story btw
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Daimo B
Member
Registered: 20th Mar 00
User status: Offline
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Not going to much into it...
But leaving your car for 1 year?
Again, comes back to ownership, chasing what is yours etc. I know my car was meant to be back on x date, and i was on eht phone EVERY day, inc visits, until I got it back...
But then im not in full reciept of the facts
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DaveB
Member
Registered: 29th Dec 00
Location: Huddersfield
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by jr
The pics arent the same car as that big story btw
Aye, no pics of the issues with that one, but they're all internal.
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Luke
Member
Registered: 9th Dec 05
Location: Oxford Drives:Corsa B C20LET
User status: Offline
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Fucking shocking to say the least. Really feel for the poor lads.
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John
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 03
User status: Offline
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So they found out RC developements were lying cowboys yet still sent it back there for them to do further work like fitting the brakes etc?
Although these companies shouldn't get away with it they seem to prey on the people they know will let them get away with it.
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willay
Moderator
Organiser: South East, National Events
Premium Member
Registered: 10th Nov 02
Location: Roydon, Essex
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fuckkkk
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FruitBooTeR
Member
Registered: 18th Jan 07
Location: Wolverhampton Drives: S15
User status: Offline
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When they say the company has gone into receivership and liquidation etc what exactly does that mean, If RC Developments owe hundreds of thousnads of pounds to various companies how will these companies get their money etc etc?
Do the people who worked for RC just walk away and the debt is just swept under the carpet...?
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Dan Lewis
Member
Registered: 31st Jan 05
Location: Leicestershire
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by FruitBooTeR
When they say the company has gone into receivership and liquidation etc what exactly does that mean, If RC Developments owe hundreds of thousnads of pounds to various companies how will these companies get their money etc etc?
Do the people who worked for RC just walk away and the debt is just swept under the carpet...?
all the stuff that is owned by RC will be sold and they money sent to various people to whom they owe it too
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Robbo
Member
Registered: 6th Aug 02
Location: London
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Yes but the creditors will only get x amount of pence for every pound they are owed...
sounds like your typical car related business, run by peple who have the technical skills but no business skills whatsoever
think colin hit the nail on the head also!
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Rick Draper
Member
Registered: 10th Feb 01
Location: Cheshire
User status: Offline
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TBH it sounds like RC have nowt as they were selling all the old surpless stock on ebay a few weeks back!
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Robbo
Member
Registered: 6th Aug 02
Location: London
User status: Offline
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Well the administrators can sell all the assets etc to get some money back but its likely the creditors will get around 20p in the pound (ie if thye are owed £100 they will get £20 back), thats about average for most admins, maybe less seen as though there is identifiable fraud
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Joe
Member
Registered: 20th Jun 04
Location: Hesketh Bank, Lancashire
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by jr
Lots of words
Thats a fucking shocking story, selling bits off a customers car to make money. Although foolish to keep going back to them for more and more bits.
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Novaneil
Member
Registered: 26th Oct 06
Location: Leamington Spa
User status: Offline
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That is shocking!
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