Daimo B
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quote:
Originally posted by Jambo
heathrow is the busiest airport in the world if im not mistaken...
Another busy one would be Chicago which has 8 runways.
In intrest of safety alone i would say its worth it.
The economic impact will be good, create new jobs and then after its open the obvious tourism, increased business travel etc.
Easy answer.
Divert more air traffic to NON BA owned runways, and build up transport links to these.
Don't make an extremly busy airport even more busy. Think of all the extra planes flying in London airspace with another 250,000+ planes per year.
Cosmo, stop being a 5 year old, and think of the bigger picture.
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Cosmo
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quote:
Originally posted by VXR
Easy answer.
Divert more air traffic to NON BA owned runways, and build up transport links to these.
Don't make an extremly busy airport even more busy. Think of all the extra planes flying in London airspace with another 250,000+ planes per year.
Cosmo, stop being a 5 year old, and think of the bigger picture.
Im sure their is a reason why Heathrow is being chosen...more than likely the fact it already had 5 terminals and to handle the extra amount of planes required it would only need the one extra terminal and one runways - others might need a lot more.
And Im not being a 5yr old, the bigger picture to me is the economy. If the cost for this country to progress forward, to increase the number of jobs available, to get people off benefits, to increase revenues into this country is extra planes and the expansion of a few airports then Im fine for that to happen.
Im sure you're also one who isnt happy with the govt. giving hand outs, them not investing into other areas of the economy (schools, NHS, etc.) - well the economy expanding will aid all theses.
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Daimo B
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quote:
Originally posted by myke
I saw a little about this on the news at lunchtime.
They're proposing that there will be a limit of 200,000 flights from it a year. Over half of which will be allocated first to the air lines with the most efficient planes.
This will take 10 years minimum to be passed, planned, built and commissioned if all of the plans go through first time without any hitch's or hold ups. (and come on this is England, there will be delays.
They will also put in a high speed rail link. I didn't catch exactly where this was to, but i suspect Dover or the tube station they just upgraded for eurostar.
On a personal note, i'm not bothered about it too much provided they widen the M25 clockwise carriageway around that area so I'm not stuck in traffic for 40 mins waiting to get home on a Friday afternoon. 
Got to build the extra lanes though = nightmare for the next 4 years just like the M1 and A2 expansions.
ES goes to Paddington, then underground to Essex, then to Ebbsfleet. Would require a huge expansion, and can't see why you'd need the airport link to the european railway.
Transport addtion, i just don't get it. How muhc shorter can you make a 15 min trip to the city really?
So if we're talking some kind of north/south HSR, then why not just put the runway on a northen airport??
Most effiecient planes isn't really that good. A jet engine is a jet engine, it produces thrust, which produces toxins. No room for Catalytic converters on those bad boys
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Jodi_the_g
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Registered: 7th Aug 01
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O'Hare International Airport has 7 runways and one Helipad Jambo.
But your right it has almost a million aircraft operations a year out of it.
Compared to Heathrow with 2 runways and almost half a million operations, the amount of traffic alone needs at least one more runway.
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Jambo
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the weather is no different to how it was years ago, but if we have a cold week in may or a hot one in october everyone blames global warming.
Whilst i recognise the issue, i also understand that the earth since creation has constantly changed and evolved in all sorts of ways. This is still happning today, but media decide to jump on it and sensationalise it. Governments jump at the chance to steal money they have borrowed/pissed away back from un suspecting joe public under the ethical premise of helping the planet.
This however does not mean that changing industry, attitudes to being more efficient and less wastefull is a waste of time, completely opposite. It has created an industry almost in itself, new markets and fresh thinking and challenges for man kind. Whats the point in doing something one way if you can do it more efficiently another way
But dont be fooled into thinking that having a few more planes in the air is going to destroy mankind. Because it will be a bitter anti climax. Just like we havent all gone mad from BSE or died from poultry influenza.
Dont beleive the hype yo.
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Daimo B
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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
quote:
Originally posted by VXR
Easy answer.
Divert more air traffic to NON BA owned runways, and build up transport links to these.
Don't make an extremly busy airport even more busy. Think of all the extra planes flying in London airspace with another 250,000+ planes per year.
Cosmo, stop being a 5 year old, and think of the bigger picture.
Im sure their is a reason why Heathrow is being chosen...more than likely the fact it already had 5 terminals and to handle the extra amount of planes required it would only need the one extra terminal and one runways - others might need a lot more.
And Im not being a 5yr old, the bigger picture to me is the economy. If the cost for this country to progress forward, to increase the number of jobs available, to get people off benefits, to increase revenues into this country is extra planes and the expansion of a few airports then Im fine for that to happen.
Im sure you're also one who isnt happy with the govt. giving hand outs, them not investing into other areas of the economy (schools, NHS, etc.) - well the economy expanding will aid all theses.
Attitude towards the enviroment is that of a 5 year old.
Money money money, all about money....
So build another terminal, just like Terminal 5 yeah? Great way to promote Britain, we were the laughing stock of the world with Terminal 5 upgrade....
A few extra tourists really isn't going to help the hole the government has dug with funding for schooling, NHS and such. Billions will take decades to recover.
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Jodi_the_g
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Registered: 7th Aug 01
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No Terminal 5 is amazing, all US airports are shitholes compared to ours.
I am proud of our air infrastructure and believe it rates as some of the best in the world, despite the lack of development in the last 20 years.
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Jodi_the_g
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The runway will mean more air freight as well as tourists, meaning more warehouse jobs etc in the local area.
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Cosmo
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Registered: 29th Mar 01
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quote:
Originally posted by VXR
Attitude towards the enviroment is that of a 5 year old.
Money money money, all about money....
So build another terminal, just like Terminal 5 yeah? Great way to promote Britain, we were the laughing stock of the world with Terminal 5 upgrade....
A few extra tourists really isn't going to help the hole the government has dug with funding for schooling, NHS and such. Billions will take decades to recover.
Once again, my attitude to the environment isnt that of a 5yr old, its that of an educated realist.
I undertand that our population is growing. I understand that due to this the strain on all infrastructure and services (roads, NHS, school, police, everything) will continue to increase.
Due to this we have two options
1. We build for the future. We increase revenue into the country, we improve the infrastructure, we invest in public services.
2. We do nothing and look at the pretty environment around us. Until the population gets so high, and the strain on services gets so much that we are totally in the shite and building to improve would take years if at all be possible.
Yes you can say its money money money, but at the end of the day its money that has given you the life you have now. Its money thats the difference between you living in an economy where you got free education and free health care, all whilst being in a (relatively) peaceful society.
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Jambo
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Atlanta is the best airport ive ever been to, it felt bigger than south east England
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Daimo B
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quote:
Originally posted by Jambo
the weather is no different to how it was years ago, but if we have a cold week in may or a hot one in october everyone blames global warming.
Whilst i recognise the issue, i also understand that the earth since creation has constantly changed and evolved in all sorts of ways. This is still happning today, but media decide to jump on it and sensationalise it. Governments jump at the chance to steal money they have borrowed/pissed away back from un suspecting joe public under the ethical premise of helping the planet.
This however does not mean that changing industry, attitudes to being more efficient and less wastefull is a waste of time, completely opposite. It has created an industry almost in itself, new markets and fresh thinking and challenges for man kind. Whats the point in doing something one way if you can do it more efficiently another way
But dont be fooled into thinking that having a few more planes in the air is going to destroy mankind. Because it will be a bitter anti climax. Just like we havent all gone mad from BSE or died from poultry influenza.
Dont beleive the hype yo.
Sorry, I highly disagree with that Jambo. The weather has vastly changed in format. If you own a garden, its easily seen.
The weather when I was a kid had set seasons. You knew which season you were in. The last 5+ years has seen a hot spell for a few weeks in march/april. Didn't we even have snow in april/june not long back? When I was a kid, summer really was summer, hot, sweaty, sticky summer. Winter was cold, we had proper snow, autumn started in sept. These days we're still having mild weather into november.
Weather pattern have changed, im sure I could find some really boring research which shows the patterns, but it has changed.
Its not going to destroy no, but think of it like a lightbulb.
1, 2, 3, 10, 50, turning them off won't make a difference really....
1000, 10,000, 100,000 though, and it makes the difference it makes to power usage. Similar effect. If every country says "lets put up 10 more planes in our fleet", then thats another 2000+ planes instantly. But the numbers are in fact much higher.
Im not a climate bufty, saving the world, but I try to do my bit, and I personnally think its rather ignorent to ignore it 
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Jodi_the_g
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Hartsfield-Jackson?
Jambo
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Cosmo
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Are you sure the weather being like that is not just cyclical Daimo rather than due to mankind causing it to change?
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Daimo B
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quote:
Originally posted by Jodi_the_g
No Terminal 5 is amazing, all US airports are shitholes compared to ours.
I am proud of our air infrastructure and believe it rates as some of the best in the world, despite the lack of development in the last 20 years.
The terminal may be impressive.
Budget over budget to build? Time over completion? Opening day?
China/Japan (can't remember) opened an entire airport, built it, and had it running, for a VAST amount less money that a single terminal cost to build here.
And who will pay for all this new runway, terminals?
Us of course.
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Daimo B
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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
Are you sure the weather being like that is not just cyclical Daimo rather than due to mankind causing it to change?
If you think this, then your even more ignorent than I thought 
Have you got eyes? Its probably something you don't pay the slightest bit of attention too.
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pow
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What about our daily lives?
The M4? The M25? The tube/rail links? The buses? The amount extra people that these transport links will bring it which it can't cope with at the moment.
Jesus, the M4 stacks back 20 odd miles into town, passing junc4 for heathrow every morning and evening. Hey, lets make sure we have a big enough airport and the poor people that live anywhere near it can suffer?
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Cosmo
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quote:
Originally posted by VXR
China/Japan (can't remember) opened an entire airport, built it, and had it running, for a VAST amount less money that a single terminal cost to build here.
Id question the methods in which they got it built though, as I bet you the EU certainly wouldnt allow us to use similar methods (given my experience watching a programme on how China built that birds nest thing!).
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Daimo B
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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
dribble
Are they really the only two options you can come up with.
And you say your an educated realist.
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Cosmo
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quote:
Originally posted by VXR
quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
Are you sure the weather being like that is not just cyclical Daimo rather than due to mankind causing it to change?
If you think this, then your even more ignorent than I thought
Have you got eyes? Its probably something you don't pay the slightest bit of attention too.
I didnt say I thought this, I havent looked into the facts enough (yes Ive seen some on both sides of the arguement, but not enough for me to form an opinion).
And yes I have eyes, my eyes show me things may of changed, but they dont tell me whats caused it. Do yours?
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Cosmo
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quote:
Originally posted by VXR
quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
dribble
Are they really the only two options you can come up with.
And you say your an educated realist.
They are the two basic options, of course their are options within these two on how you go about it.
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Daimo B
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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
Id question the methods in which they got it built though, as I bet you the EU certainly wouldnt allow us to use similar methods (given my experience watching a programme on how China built that birds nest thing!).
I watched that, and no, it was nothing like the birds nest, just planned right, and finished on budget, on time, and opened. It was a national thing, included links (im sure it was Japan) into the city, new roads, railways, one of the longest suspension bridges in the world.
But that isn't the main issue anyway.
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ed
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They need to get their arses in gear, build the high speed rail links and expand an airport in the midlands. It's stupid that people have to come down from the north only to fly back over their houses again after taking off from Heathrow.
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Cosmo
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quote:
Originally posted by VXR
quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
Id question the methods in which they got it built though, as I bet you the EU certainly wouldnt allow us to use similar methods (given my experience watching a programme on how China built that birds nest thing!).
I watched that, and no, it was nothing like the birds nest, just planned right, and finished on budget, on time, and opened. It was a national thing, included links (im sure it was Japan) into the city, new roads, railways, one of the longest suspension bridges in the world.
But that isn't the main issue anyway.
Yeah, my point is though that the H+S issues that would get thrown up here are nothing like there. Hence why projects come in at lower costs and quicker time frames.
Although that is a fault of the Govt. and EU wankers imposing stupid work place laws.
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Daimo B
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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
I didnt say I thought this, I havent looked into the facts enough (yes Ive seen some on both sides of the arguement, but not enough for me to form an opinion).
And yes I have eyes, my eyes show me things may of changed, but they dont tell me whats caused it. Do yours?
No, but an interest in nature, the planet, how it all works and how its all changed in the last decade (it all actually started by the victorians in the steel era, but has got worse in the last 20 years due to human numbers, money being available to buy the things like cars, flights on holiday etc).
WE're there as many people taking holidays in teh 70's as there are today? No-where-near.
Households have 3 cars, not 1 per family. Whilst emissions have gone down, the amount of cars over-rides this, so the emissions are higher these days than previous.
The problem isn't only the UK, theres much worse countries. But these countries don't go on about saving the planet, then go exactly against their own words.
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Daimo B
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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
Although that is a fault of the Govt. and EU wankers imposing stupid work place laws.
TOTALLY agree, although the Japanese are quite H+S aware.
I agree with Ed, already said it. HST links are far more effective, and cleaner than planes, and use much less energy as well.
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