Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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haha yeh tell me about maitenance, I've killed 1 aprilia RS, and melted another's piston while riding (and had it seize)... 
DaveyLC - to be honest mate, for the sort of riding I do, the rs actually goes alright, up to 60 mph it's fairly fast (probably about same as my car / maybe a bit quicker) - 60-70 mph is a bit slower, over 70 is pretty fucking slow, but it'll still go to 110 mph.
34 bhp I believe it is unrestricted. 200kg (rider + bike) ... 170 bhp / tonne.
Ok it'll be destroyed by any of these bigger bikes, but it goes well around corners and is great fun ragging it to death to get it to move (if you put in as much effort on a bigger bike you'd be at dangerous speeds).
Just find sometimes you're stuck mid corner having to cog down to get it to move / up because you're now moving... Corners aren't really the place to be constantly up and down shifting as you want smooth constant power going through the bike.
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DizzyRebel
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Registered: 2nd Jan 09
Location: Lincoln
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I only ever seized one RS125 up, and even then it only nipped a ring as the previous owner had put in a cheap mitaka piston. RS125 is the more reliable 2 stroke 125 you can buy - engines made By rotax-bombardier who build engines for the military so they have to be good! They were never hard for me to fix anyway as i worked at an aprilia main dealers for 3 years and am factory trained!
On the dyno an RS125 is about 29-30bhp, Which is 240bhp per litre, and iirc is higher than any production motorcycle or car to this day.
As for your cornering, your doing it wrong - you should enter the corner already in your selected gear, dont worry about being way into the redline as the RS125 has about 2000 rpm of overrev to give you so just knock it down and go into the corner with it screaming. Or if you find yourself in the wrong gear exiting a corner just slip the clutch and everything will be fine!
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Ojc
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Registered: 14th Nov 00
Location: Reading: Drives : Clio 197
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I WILL own an RS250, buy a blown up one, restore it and keep it in the shed in the garden.
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Minty_Fresh
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Registered: 1st May 08
Location: westmidlands
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cradley kawasaki is down the road from me, even sat on a green ninja not long ago in there...
awsome bike..
any plans for it?
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lostboy
Banned
Registered: 29th Jan 09
Location: Durham
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Very nice bike, yoshi can ftw 
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DaveyLC
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by DizzyRebel
Only problem with 600's is you need to rev the nuts off them to get them to trot on, which is great fun on track but can get tedious on the road. Whereas on an rsv just wind the throttle back and let the torque catapult you into the distance without the lairyness of a 4.
A V-Twin having more torque than an inline four.. Next you'll be telling me the world isnt flat! 
V-Twin sport-bikes ride like shit.. Loads of torque, great for the commute but they are hardwork in the twisties and not particularly predictable! They are not exactly 'all rounders'.
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DizzyRebel
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Registered: 2nd Jan 09
Location: Lincoln
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A 1000 twin has more torque than a 600 4 and thats that, but a 1000 twin doesnt have more torque than an 1000 4 however the power delivery is better and more tractable.
You have it wrong. Obv you have never ridden an 04 onwards RSV or 1098. Twins are better for twisties and thats a fact, the way the power is delivered to the rear wheel gives it more time to gain traction between power pulses, hence why a lot of gp teams and superbike teams convert engines to run a 'big bang' firing order where the power pulses mimmick that of a twin.
Round town twins are often a bit more lumpy and the clutches are usually a bit harder but out on the bends twins are great as you dont have to worry too much about gear selection for corners and the power is linear and predictable so it makes riding them fast a less worrying experience.
The honda sp1 and sp2 are shit i give you that, fuelling glitches plague them and they arent anything special either. But The RSV is one of, of not THE best road bike money can buy.
What experience have you had with twins over 4's to say they are shit and hard to ride fast? ive been working on and test riding all manners of bikes for 5 years now...
[Edited on 03-03-2009 by DizzyRebel]
[Edited on 03-03-2009 by DizzyRebel]
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DaveyLC
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Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline
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So what your saying is an equivilent I4 has got more torque than a V-Twin? 
I've ridden: V-Storm, 996, 999R, RSV Mille, SV650 and several V-twin enduros.
I've ridden singles, twins, triumph tripples fours, flat 6's, v4's.. the lot. The only thing I havent ridden is a rotary.
Sport V-Twins are torque monsters, the power-band starts stupidly low but they are not very intuative to ride.
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DaveyLC
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Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline
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Oh and dabbled in the world of Two stroke.. An RD350YVPS being the most insane! lol 
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Daimo B
Member
Registered: 20th Mar 00
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by DizzyRebel
god, you dont have to run them in you know lol - i worked at a bike dealership for 3 years and we have always advsed our customers to give them shit from day one as its dyno proven bikes that get thrashed out the showroom create more power than ones ran in gently.
And the engines don't last as long. Frankly with that advice, i'd never ever EVER use your dealer and i'd like to know the name of it so I can ensure never to get anything from them.
Every professional dealer I know of, be it Japanese, or Italian dealers, will tell you to run it in. Even my old man still runs them in, and he knows jsut a little bit about bikes. 
So whilst it may make 1-3bhp more on a dyno, it isn't helping the engine at all. The engines have a lubricant to aid running in periods, and if you thrash it it doesn't have time to bed in and can lead to running problems, especially cold running problems.
That advice is great for someone turning their bike into a track bike, but as a brand new motorcycle, I wouldn't thrash from new ever.
Same with a car. Sure it may make a small amount f power more, but you've just taken 50k+ off the engine life by doing it...
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Daimo B
Member
Registered: 20th Mar 00
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by mikenoncorsa
Finally, after 5 weeks of waiting I picked up my new bike yesterday. Absolutely love it and am so pleased with my choice. Had excellent service from Cradley Kawasaki too so thanks to them! Did 120 miles yesterday, popped upto the bike stop cafe at Quatt, was a fair few bikes out. Today i followed the a44 from worceter all the way through to Rayader, such an amazing road and hardly any traffic. Got another 150 miles on it today, just taking it steady at the moment but feels so good to ride. Anyway, here's the
New toys are always nice
Do they still do the metalflake Orange as well?
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DizzyRebel
Member
Registered: 2nd Jan 09
Location: Lincoln
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by DaveyLC
So what your saying is an equivilent I4 has got more torque than a V-Twin?
I've ridden: V-Storm, 996, 999R, RSV Mille, SV650 and several V-twin enduros.
I've ridden singles, twins, triumph tripples fours, flat 6's, v4's.. the lot. The only thing I havent ridden is a rotary.
Sport V-Twins are torque monsters, the power-band starts stupidly low but they are not very intuative to ride.
Yup thats what im saying, look at the torque output of a K9 GSX-R1000 as opposed to a 1098. theres a significant difference. Its all about where the powers created as to which feels like its got 'more torque.'
Twins create their torque lower down than a 4 so they feel stronger from the off but they dont have the high rpm kick of a 4 which is why they dont feel as 'exciting.' But on track twins really do shine through as being easier to ride fast. You should try a new shape RSV factory, i know im a bit biassed as i worked for aprilia for so long but i have to say the factory is the bike i looked forwards to riding the most whenever they were in for work.
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Daimo B
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Registered: 20th Mar 00
User status: Offline
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Err wrong way round.
On the track, the IL4 is probably the better engine. More usable and linier power and torque delivery.
Twins are better suited to the road riding, where your not entering a bend in 3rd at 12,000+ revs.... U'll more-likley be in a lower gear, lower in the rev range, so you want instant available power, unlike a 4 that takes time to wind up to warp speed.
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DaveyLC
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Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline
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Theres a couple of lb-ft in it but the Torque curve on the V-Twin is more of a horizontal line  The peaks are in the same place but the Twin in kicking it out from idle near enough.
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DizzyRebel
Member
Registered: 2nd Jan 09
Location: Lincoln
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by VXR
quote:
Originally posted by DizzyRebel
god, you dont have to run them in you know lol - i worked at a bike dealership for 3 years and we have always advsed our customers to give them shit from day one as its dyno proven bikes that get thrashed out the showroom create more power than ones ran in gently.
And the engines don't last as long. Frankly with that advice, i'd never ever EVER use your dealer and i'd like to know the name of it so I can ensure never to get anything from them.
Every professional dealer I know of, be it Japanese, or Italian dealers, will tell you to run it in. Even my old man still runs them in, and he knows jsut a little bit about bikes.
So whilst it may make 1-3bhp more on a dyno, it isn't helping the engine at all. The engines have a lubricant to aid running in periods, and if you thrash it it doesn't have time to bed in and can lead to running problems, especially cold running problems.
That advice is great for someone turning their bike into a track bike, but as a brand new motorcycle, I wouldn't thrash from new ever.
Same with a car. Sure it may make a small amount f power more, but you've just taken 50k+ off the engine life by doing it...
And what experience do you have? I built race engines for a living, i see the wear on parts when they were rebuilt and you could always tell the engines that were run in hard from the ones that were run in soft right away. The ones that were run in hard had less wear on the bores, less ring blow by and used less oil between races. Your not a motorsport or engine technician so do you really know what your on about?
Heres a little exert from a manual written by one of the best engine builders in the world:
What's The Best Way To Break-In A New Engine ??
The Short Answer: Run it Hard !
Why ??
Nowadays, the piston ring seal is really what the break in process is all about. Contrary to popular belief, piston rings don't seal the combustion pressure by spring tension. Ring tension is necessary only to "scrape" the oil to prevent it from entering the combustion chamber.
If you think about it, the ring exerts maybe 5-10 lbs of spring tension against the cylinder wall ...
How can such a small amount of spring tension seal against thousands of
PSI (Pounds Per Square Inch) of combustion pressure ??
Of course it can't.
How Do Rings Seal Against Tremendous Combustion Pressure ??
From the actual gas pressure itself !! It passes over the top of the ring, and gets behind it to force it outward against the cylinder wall. The problem is that new rings are far from perfect and they must be worn in quite a bit in order to completely seal all the way around the bore. If the gas pressure is strong enough during the engine's first miles of operation (open that throttle !!!), then the entire ring will wear into
the cylinder surface, to seal the combustion pressure as well as possible.
The Problem With "Easy Break In" ...
The honed crosshatch pattern in the cylinder bore acts like a file to allow the rings to wear. The rings quickly wear down the "peaks" of this roughness, regardless of how hard the engine is run.
There's a very small window of opportunity to get the rings to seal really well ... the first 20 miles !!
If the rings aren't forced against the walls soon enough, they'll use up the roughness before they fully seat. Once that happens there is no solution but to re hone the cylinders, install new rings and start over again.
Fortunately, most new sportbike owners can't resist the urge to "open it up" once or twice,
which is why more engines don't have this problem !!
An additional factor that you may not have realized, is that the person at the dealership who set up your bike probably blasted your brand new bike pretty hard on the "test run". So, without realizing it, that adrenaline crazed set - up mechanic actually did you a huge favor !!
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DaveyLC
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline
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I borrowed a 999R for a day from OnYerBike for a photoshoot.. Absoloute DOG of a bike for the road.. Would be AWESOME on a track (if you were used to twins).. I find with the twins you end up fumbling around trying to find the right gear for entering corners, yeah its all practice but inline fours are just so easy and forgiving by comparison.. I'm not saying twins are shit fullstop but what I am saying is its like an art you have to master but who wants all that bullshit?
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Mobby
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Registered: 31st Dec 07
Location: Leicestershire
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by DaveyLC
quote:
Originally posted by Warren G
17,000rpm 
must be a 600
i think mine only revs to 12 or 13,000 
Big CC bikes are fun but you have to be a class A nut job to get the full potential.
couldnt agree more! you have to ride one to understand!
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DizzyRebel
Member
Registered: 2nd Jan 09
Location: Lincoln
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by VXR
Err wrong way round.
On the track, the IL4 is probably the better engine. More usable and linier power and torque delivery.
Twins are better suited to the road riding, where your not entering a bend in 3rd at 12,000+ revs.... U'll more-likley be in a lower gear, lower in the rev range, so you want instant available power, unlike a 4 that takes time to wind up to warp speed.
I4 has more potential and costs less to create larger power outputs but the downside is that its less tractable. Motogp teams and sbk teams use 'big bang' firing orders to mimick the power delivery of a twin. The I4's have a big problem with overloading the rear wheels which is why in motogp they use V4's as they are much more tractable for the riders. I4's have a very peaky and steep power curve, whereas twins have a linear power 'line' as opposed to a curve.
Do you race, build or map any race bikes?
[Edited on 03-03-2009 by DizzyRebel]
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DizzyRebel
Member
Registered: 2nd Jan 09
Location: Lincoln
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by DaveyLC
I borrowed a 999R for a day from OnYerBike for a photoshoot.. Absoloute DOG of a bike for the road.. Would be AWESOME on a track (if you were used to twins).. I find with the twins you end up fumbling around trying to find the right gear for entering corners, yeah its all practice but inline fours are just so easy and forgiving by comparison.. I'm not saying twins are shit fullstop but what I am saying is its like an art you have to master but who wants all that bullshit?
Lol i know what your saying, but wheres the fun in that? A 1000 4 is just a lazy way to get maximum speed on 2 wheels, but more often than not an I4 rider will struggle to keep up with a twin on a challenging bit of road due to the lairy power curve. The 999 is nowhere near as refined as the RSV btw so the RSV might just change your opinion on things!
Just buy a 2stroke, giggles a plenty at low speed then lol.
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DaveyLC
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Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
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I love the lazy nature of I4's.. Its like waking up a sleeping beast.. Bring the revs up into to the power band then release the clutch to unleash it!
At the moment I'm devoted convert to church of thumpers!
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DizzyRebel
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Registered: 2nd Jan 09
Location: Lincoln
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BOOOO lol, i was on the development team for the aprilia SXV supermoto TWIN! As far as sm's go the SXV is the pinnacle of technology, and the MXV motocross bike debut this year is sure to take the feild by storm!
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DaveyLC
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Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline
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I could never own an Italian bike I'm afraid. In my eyes they are just orniments.
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DizzyRebel
Member
Registered: 2nd Jan 09
Location: Lincoln
User status: Offline
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Really? even though aprilia have better build quality than any of the jap makers?
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alli Ronald
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Registered: 20th Aug 04
Location: Glasgow
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nice looking ninja mate...keep it shiney side up.
as for the other comments - once again its a "which one is best" arguement - when in actual fact - 99% of it is down to the rider/driver - fact....
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DizzyRebel
Member
Registered: 2nd Jan 09
Location: Lincoln
User status: Offline
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90% operator 10% machine. But its better to have an 11% machine incase your not operating at 100% in that particular lap/race.
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