Nick-S
Member
Registered: 3rd Mar 04
Location: Leigh. Drives: RS Megane 230 F1 Team R26
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Rich H
Nick - Yes the products go on the clearcoat but you can still affect the finish depending on what product you apply to it. I don't know the science behind it, but I know what works!
I wasnt douting you or anything mate, its just how i see it. My car has had a polish, seal and wax this week(all AG stuff) and am just srugaling to see how a colour specific wax would make the shine on my car any better than it or ready is. am sure ill pop over for a chat at pvs anyway 
|
Ben G
Member
Registered: 12th Jan 07
Location: Essex
User status: Offline
|
davey, surely the sale of goods act threat would only work if you bought it and the wax for not fit for purpose or it was the incorrect item sent to you?
|
Daveskater
Premium Member
Registered: 29th Apr 08
Location: Oxford, UK Drives: Jap wagon
User status: Offline
|
Compared to the Meg's Tech Wax I used before, it looks a hundred times better now, if not a thousand 
I used to use "Rhino Wash & Wax", T-cut Metallic, and Meg's Tech Wax. It shined but didn't reflect that well and the "depth" wasn't great. Any reflections always faded away if that makes sense.
After one use of the same shampoo, a claying, Dodo NFS and Dodo Rainforest Rub, it's made an incredible difference. The polish didn't feel anywhere near as abrasive as T-cut, so I was wondering how well it would work after one application. It's fair to say it worked very well indeed, and even improved the swirl marks like Rich said it would. They're not completely gone, but there's a reason for that, for a start I was doing it by hand, I was doing it very quickly (was in the sun on a hot day) and it was only one use.
With the stuff I used before it didn't even look that metallic. If you looked close then you could see the flake, but it wasn't very impressive. Now it stands out a mile off 
Maybe ya gotta see it to believe it 
Numberwang!
Originally posted by AlunJ
I like you Dave, you are a man of men
Originally Whatapp'd by Neo
Dave's maybe capable of a drive-by cuddle
Look at my pictures
|
dhdev
Member
Registered: 22nd Dec 05
Location: Midlands
User status: Offline
|
Once the wax is applied and left to cure, it leaves behind a protective layer, is it not conceivable that the layer may be able to enhance the percieved colour by acting as a filter to the reflected light?
|
DaveyLC
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline
|
I'm just looking for a demonstration, Rich you say the suppliers dont pay you to do demonstrations but surely if you can demonstrate the product is superior and the variations have their merits then you should make more sales? Maybe I'll buy some from you and do a demonstration for dodo and compare it against a professional product, I'd hope the dodo juice which costs nearly twice the price should be atleast better.
|
DaveyLC
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by dhdev
Once the wax is applied and left to cure, it leaves behind a protective layer, is it not conceivable that the layer may be able to enhance the percieved colour by acting as a filter to the reflected light?
I very much doubt the pigment in the wax is part of the active ingredient (canuba).
|
BluKoo
Member
Registered: 8th Apr 02
Location: Stonehaven (Scotland)
User status: Offline
|
If you're talking solely about waxes, then the colour of your car probably won't make much of a difference.
If you throw a sealant into the equation, that changes things.
This info was extracted from...
http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/car-care-advice-faq.html#4.1
Waxes and sealant layers have different physical properties (texture, density, opacity, thickness, etc) and thus reflect and refract light differently; in real terms, natural carnauba waxes tend to produce a softer, warmer, glossier finish, while synthetic sealants tend to produce a sharper, cooler, shinier finish.
Therefore, it is possible to tailor the final look of paint depending on what last step product you choose, and some colours are more susceptible to this effect than others.
This being the case, a key question arises; how do you know which wax or sealant to choose to produce the best possible finish on a particular colour?
The answer to this question can only really be provided by real world hands-on experience of protecting many different coloured paints using many different commercially available waxes and sealants. Indeed, this is exactly how we (Polishd Bliss) have acquired our own in-depth knowledge of last step products and the results they give on various popular paint colours, and we are happy to share our experience so that our customers may benefit and achieve the best possible results without wasting time and money through trial and error. Accordingly, what follows below is a series of recommendations on which last step product(s) you should use to produce the best possible finish on various popular paint colours. These recommendations are based entirely on our own professional experience, and assume that the paint in each case has been washed, cleansed and polished to perfection.
What is the best last step product to use on solid white and light metallic/pearlescent colours?
Many people find it difficult to achieve an excellent finish on solid white and light metallic/pearlescent colours, no matter how well they prepare their paint. This is because the lightness of tone precludes a high degree of reflectivity, and thus makes it hard to achieve a finish with any real clarity and depth. Furthermore, this lack of reflectivity can also limit how wet the paint looks, as fewer highlights are shown up in the finish. However, these problems can be largely overcome by choosing a synthetic sealant instead of a natural carnauba wax as the last step product. This is because sealant polymer chains tend to cross-link to form an exceptionally smooth, highly dense surface layer that reflects light far more efficiently than a microscopically rougher, less dense natural carnauba wax coating, and this can add a significant amount of wetness to the appearance of the paint, as more highlights are shown up in the finish. Moreover, the same smoothing and filling properties also minimise any scattering of light caused by micro-structures in the surface of the paint, meaning that reflections are afforded greater clarity and depth, and that metallic and pearlescent flakes receive more transmitted light and thus appear to stand out more from the base colour (a phenomenon commonly known as flake pop).
Out of the various synthetic sealants we stock, we favour the Werkstat Acrylic Kit for optimal results on solid white and light metallic/pearlescent colours. This is because it delivers an incredible level of reflectivity characterised by amazing clarity and depth, and makes metallic and pearlescent flakes stand out from the base colour more than any other product we have used. Indeed, on some light metallic colours we have worked on, it has literally made the flake appear to explode out of the surface of the paint when viewed in direct sunlight. Further benefits afforded by the Werkstat Acrylic Kit include terrific ease of use, even in cold and damp conditions, and excellent durability, with a single application of the three component system typically lasting for around three months on a daily driver, although this can be extended almost indefinitely if regular quick detailing is undertaken. If your budget is too small to stretch to the Werkstat Acrylic Kit, there are two alternative options worth considering. The first is Blackfire Wet Diamond All Finish Paint Protection, which delivers an equally intense wet looking shine, albeit with a little less flake pop. The second is Poorboys EX-P Sealant, which delivers a sharp wet looking shine with good flake pop, and offers excellent value for money.
What is the best last step product to use on solid mid-tone colours?
Many people find it relatively easy to achieve a soft, warm, glossy finish on solid mid-tone colours like reds and yellows, and this can be explained as much by the characteristics of the paint as by the choice of last step product used. This is because the basecoat layer in such colour systems is usually twice as thick as in lighter and darker systems respectively, and also comprises light absorbing pigments that serve to minimise reflectivity and thus enhance colour intensity. It is possible to counter this effect to some extent by choosing a synthetic sealant instead of a natural carnauba wax as the last step product, and in many cases this will enhance reflectivity significantly, but unfortunately usually at the expense of colour intensity and gloss. In our opinion, it is better to work with the characteristics of the paint rather than against them, and for this reason we recommend using a natural carnauba wax as the last step product on solid mid-tone colours. This is because natural carnauba wax layers are microscopically rougher than smoother, denser, polymerised sealant coatings, and thus scatter a greater proportion of incoming light, meaning that reflections are afforded less clarity and depth, and that colour intensity is enhanced (a phenomenon commonly known as jetting). In real terms, this translates to the paint taking on a much softer, warmer, glossier appearance.
Out of the various natural carnauba waxes we stock, we favour the Werkstat Carnauba Kit for optimal results on solid mid-tone colours. This is because it delivers an incredible amount of jetting that makes solid mid-tone colours literally look like they are about to pop in front of you; no other product we have used makes such colours look as rich and intense. Further benefits afforded by the Werkstat Carnauba Kit include terrific ease of use, even in cold and damp conditions, and excellent durability, with a single application of the three component system typically lasting for around three months on a daily driver, although this can be extended almost indefinitely if regular quick detailing is undertaken. However, if you would prefer to use a paste wax as opposed to a spray wax, then Raceglaze Signature Series '55' is well worth considering. This high quality carnauba wax also delivers a high degree of jetting on solid mid-tone colours with even more outright gloss, and is also easy to use and highly durable. If your budget is too small to stretch to either the Werkstat Carnauba Kit or Raceglaze Signature Series '55', there is one further alternative option worth considering. The combination of Poorboys EX Sealant with Carnauba topped with multiple layers of Poorboys Natty's Paste Wax delivers a rich, warm finish with excellent gloss levels, and offers excellent value for money.
What is the best last step product to use on mid-tone metallic/pearlescent colours?
Compared to their lighter counterparts, mid-tone metallic/pearlescent colours have enough additional colour depth to give them a significantly greater degree of reflectivity. Not only does this make it far easier to achieve a finish with much greater clarity and depth, but it also enhances how wet the paint looks, as more highlights are shown up in the finish. Consequently, it is not difficult to achieve an excellent finish on such colours, and most last step products will produce good results. However, we believe it is always better to work with the characteristics of the paint rather than against them, and for this reason we recommend using a synthetic sealant instead of a natural carnauba wax as the last step product on mid-tone metallic/pearlescent colours. This is because sealant polymer chains tend to cross-link to form an exceptionally smooth, highly dense surface layer that minimises any scattering of light caused by micro-structures in the surface of the paint, meaning that metallic and pearlescent flakes receive more transmitted light and thus appear to stand out more from the base colour (a phenomenon commonly known as flake pop). Moreover, the same smoothing and filling properties also ensure that light is reflected far more efficiently than would be the case with a microscopically rougher, less dense natural carnauba wax coating, meaning that reflections are afforded much greater clarity and depth.
Out of the various synthetic sealants we stock, we favour either the Werkstat Acrylic Kit or Blackfire Wet Diamond All Finish Paint Protection for optimal results on mid-tone metallic/pearlescent colours. The Werkstat Acrylic Kit delivers an incredible level of reflectivity characterised by amazing clarity and depth, and makes metallic and pearlescent flakes stand out from the base colour more than any other product we have used. Indeed, on some mid-tone metallic colours we have worked on, it has literally made the flake appear to explode out of the surface of the paint when viewed in direct sunlight. Further benefits afforded by the Werkstat Acrylic Kit include terrific ease of use, even in cold and damp conditions, and excellent durability, with a single application of the three component system typically lasting for around 3 months on a daily driver, although this can be extended almost indefinitely if regular quick detailing is undertaken. Alternatively, Blackfire Wet Diamond All Finish Paint Protection delivers an equally outstanding finish, characterised by slightly less flake pop but greater jetting and outright gloss. Further benefits afforded by Blackfire Wet Diamond All Finish Paint Protection include terrific ease of use and excellent durability, with a single application typically lasting for around three months on a daily driver, although this can be extended almost indefinitely if regular quick detailing is undertaken.
What is the best last step product to use on solid dark colours?
Whilst solid dark colours are undisputedly harder to maintain to a high standard than lighter colours, they do offer the luxury of more choices when it comes to choosing last step products to tailor the final look of the paint. This is because the intense colour depth gives a very high degree of reflectivity, which not only makes it far easier to achieve a finish with much greater clarity and depth, but also enhances how wet the paint looks, as more highlights are shown up. Consequently, it is not difficult to achieve an excellent finish on such colours, and it is quite straightforward to tailor the look of the final finish by choosing last step products that significantly enhance either reflectivity or gloss. By doing the former with a synthetic sealant you can produce a sharper, cooler, shinier finish, while by doing the latter with a high quality natural carnauba wax you can produce a softer, warmer, glossier finish. This is because sealant polymer chains tend to cross-link to form an exceptionally smooth, highly dense surface layer that transmits light very efficiently and maximises reflectivity, while natural carnauba wax coatings tend to comprise a microscopically rougher, less dense surface layer that scatters more incoming light and maximises colour intensity and gloss.
If maximising reflectivity and producing the sharpest possible looking finish on a dark solid colour is your ultimate goal, we recommend choosing the Werkstat Acrylic Kit as your step product. This is because it delivers an incredible level of reflectivity characterised by amazing clarity and depth, and makes solid dark colours look razor sharp. However, this high degree of reflectivity and sharpness can be counter-productive in terms of colour intensity and gloss, and can leave some dark solid colours looking somewhat cold and sterile. Thus, it is not a finish that will suit all tastes. In contrast, if maximising colour intensity and gloss on a dark solid colour is your ultimate goal, we recommend choosing Raceglaze Signature Series '55' as your last step product. This is because it delivers an incredible amount of jetting that makes solid dark colours literally look like they are about to pop in front of you; no other product we have used makes such colours look as rich and intense. Further benefits afforded by Raceglaze Signature Series '55' include terrific ease of use and excellent durability, with a single application typically lasting for around three months. If neither of the above options appeal, and you would rather produce a more balanced looking finish, we recommend choosing Blackfire Wet Diamond All Finish Paint Protection, as it delivers an intense wet looking shine with excellent reflectivity and gloss.
What is the best last step product to use on dark metallic/pearlescent colours?
If there is an optimal colour group to work with in the world of car care, then dark metallic/pearlescent colours has to be it. Not only do such colours easily yield highly reflective, incredibly wet looking finishes with terrific clarity and depth, but they are also fairly forgiving and far easier to maintain than solid dark colours. Unsurprisingly, it is not difficult to achieve an excellent finish on such colours, and most last step products will produce good results. However, we believe it is always better to work with the characteristics of the paint rather than against them, and for this reason we recommend using a synthetic sealant basecoat topped with natural carnauba wax layers as the protective system on dark metallic/pearlescent colours. This is because the sealant basecoat cross-links to form an exceptionally smooth, highly dense surface layer that enhances reflectivity and flake pop, while the subsequent layers of natural carnauba wax maximise colour intensity and gloss. The overall effect of this two stage approach is to produce a beautifully balanced finish that enhances the look of the metallic/pearlescent flake whilst simultaneously jetting the base colour. In our opinion, there is little point paying extra for a metallic/pearlescent colour unless you are going to properly show it off in this way!
Our favourite sealant and wax combination for producing optimal results on dark metallic/pearlescent colours is a basecoat of Blackfire Wet Diamond All Finish Paint Protection topped with multiple coats of Blackfire Midnight Sun Ivory Carnauba Paste Wax. Blackfire Wet Diamond All Finish Paint Protection delivers an intense wet looking shine with excellent reflectivity, and sharpens up the look of metallic/pearlescent colours brilliantly. Further benefits afforded by Blackfire Wet Diamond All Finish Paint Protection include terrific ease of use and excellent durability, which makes it ideal for use as a basecoat for subsequent layers of Blackfire Midnight Sun Ivory Carnauba Paste Wax. The addition of multiple layers of Blackfire Midnight Sun Ivory Carnauba Paste Wax over a basecoat of Blackfire Wet Diamond All Finish Paint Protection adds a rippling liquidity and intense vibrancy to dark metallic/pearlescent colours that is on par with the finish produced by bespoke high-end waxes costing thousands of pounds; it is a deeply impressive product that has few, if any, serious rivals at the same price point. If your budget is too small to stretch to the Blackfire combination outlined above, then an excellent second choice is a basecoat of Poorboys EX-P Sealant topped with multiple layers of Poorboys Natty's Paste Wax Blue. This duo delivers a rich, warm looking finish with a high level of gloss and no muting of the metallic/pearlescent flake, and offers excellent value for money.
[Edited on 29-05-2009 by BluKoo]
|
SportBoy
Member
Registered: 5th Oct 01
Location: Retford, Nottinghamshire
User status: Offline
|
i just love the stupid names ... bannana armour 
|
DizzyRebel
Member
Registered: 2nd Jan 09
Location: Lincoln
User status: Offline
|
Colour charged, they just act as a light filter. Ie if you hold a red light filter up to a white light bulb - more red light comes through than any other colour. The same principle applies to the paint, the reflected light is filtered so more of the desired colour is shown.
Of course the effect is mimimal, perhaps barely negligible. They do work though, its upto you if you feel the need to use them or not.
|
Rich H
Member
Registered: 26th Oct 05
Location: West Sussex Drives: E46 M3
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by DaveyLC
I'm just looking for a demonstration, Rich you say the suppliers dont pay you to do demonstrations but surely if you can demonstrate the product is superior and the variations have their merits then you should make more sales? Maybe I'll buy some from you and do a demonstration for dodo and compare it against a professional product, I'd hope the dodo juice which costs nearly twice the price should be atleast better.
Please feel free to if you'd like to see what it's all about. I don't feel the need to push sales as I am not intending to be a sole supplier of detailing stock - I don't really have enough to time to manage it all as it is whilst running my main valeting & detailing side of the business
I don't know what you would compare it to "professional product" wise?
|
Gareth F
Member
Registered: 16th Jan 08
Location: Location Location
User status: Offline
|
Hmmm, thread delete really 
Rich i still need to aquire some of that  special stuff
|
csweatherston
Member
Registered: 16th Jan 06
Location: Devon
User status: Offline
|
do you use any dodo products yourself Rich?.
could you not just take a before and after pic with two different waxes?
|
Nick-S
Member
Registered: 3rd Mar 04
Location: Leigh. Drives: RS Megane 230 F1 Team R26
User status: Offline
|
Rich's semen in a pot?  
|
Rich H
Member
Registered: 26th Oct 05
Location: West Sussex Drives: E46 M3
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by csweatherston
do you use any dodo products yourself Rich?.
could you not just take a before and after pic with two different waxes?
No not at all, think it's rubbish stuff tbh 
Check my replies above and on the previous page about my use of them!
A photo won't really show the difference and it's not a case of a before and after wax, it'd be more a this area was done with wax "X" and this one with wax "Y" - surprisingly I don't have time to fiddle around with that!
Gareth - Yus mate - haven't got a huge quantity of it left myself atm, so will get you some next time I go
|
Gareth F
Member
Registered: 16th Jan 08
Location: Location Location
User status: Offline
|
Ok bud, well you get 5l and ill steal 1l and give you some cash
Dont think ill every get through 5l tbh
|
XE luke
Member
Registered: 4th Apr 08
Location: doncaster s. yorkshire
User status: Offline
|
what wax would you suggest for my corsa c sri?? its ultra blue
|
chr15barn3s
Member
Registered: 5th Oct 03
Location: Farnborough
User status: Offline
|
You can buy test pots from Dodo Juice. They are only a few quid and have enough inside to do a few layers on a car. Maybe try that, see what the difference is to whatever this proffesional product is and go from there. If you don't like it you have lost fook all and if you do then buy a pot.
|
DaveyLC
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by BluKoo
If you're talking solely about waxes, then the colour of your car probably won't make much of a difference.
If you throw a sealant into the equation, that changes things.
I use a synthetic 'hard' wax/sealer as I'll either be waxing fresh paint or freshly polished or compounded paint.. I just fail to see how a pigment in a natural wax can make ANY difference.. And a wax is only as good as the prep'd surface underneath so to be honest any canuba wax albeit £5 or £500 should give basically the same finish.
I suppose all in all I really dont understand this whole spend a £100's of pounds on 'detailing' products with fancy names malarky?
I understand the importance of getting the right level of abrasiveness when it comes to a polish but you dont really need to spend lots of money you just need the right product. Its all just a gimmick! I'm yet to see any proof that these expensive product work any better than cheaper variants infact I personally think the addatives you find in some of these products which are added to make them easier to use end up building up eventually giving a greasy finish.
[Edited on 30-05-2009 by DaveyLC]
|
Rich H
Member
Registered: 26th Oct 05
Location: West Sussex Drives: E46 M3
User status: Offline
|
What additives are you talking about? The more expensive the wax, the more natural it is? The oils used are researched by Dodo and their lab to find out what works and what helps to enhance colours.
"Professional" bodyshop wax - is far more synthetic and uses synthetic materials that leave a greasy finish -e.g Autosmart Carnuaba Gold paste wax does, and sometimes Collinite 476s which contains petroleum distallates.
They key to good looking finishes is indeed down the prior preparation, but the LSP also helps to enhance this further - this just appears to be our hitch as you don't understand it, yet have had plenty of explanations. Trouble is you don't understand it, feel the need to have a dig at "detailing" all the time and are now just trying to provoke a reaction!
|
csweatherston
Member
Registered: 16th Jan 06
Location: Devon
User status: Offline
|
autosmart carnuba gold is aweful!
|
cunningham
Member
Registered: 25th May 05
Location: Lochore, Fife
User status: Offline
|
i got purple haze for my dark green v6 it went bang got a white sri and the wax works fine
|
DaveyLC
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline
|
No one ever takes the time to PROVE this products, people just blindly spend the money.
And yes a professional wax is synthetic but so is the paint finish.. Clear coat is NOT organic and it is NOT permiable so a synthetic wax is always going to be far superior, its not like you are waxing a natural wooden finish so using a natural wax would prevent damage.
Its like trying to argue that mineral oil is better for your engine than synthetic oils because its 'Natural'...
|
Nick-S
Member
Registered: 3rd Mar 04
Location: Leigh. Drives: RS Megane 230 F1 Team R26
User status: Offline
|
I am not digging at anybody here but i realy could not tell much diffrence between a shity £4 tub of turtle wax wax i used last year and a tub of AG hi def that cost me £40.
This is why i can see dave point imo.
|
Rich H
Member
Registered: 26th Oct 05
Location: West Sussex Drives: E46 M3
User status: Offline
|
I'm going to give up and agree to disagree now
|
|
