AndyKent
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Registered: 3rd Sep 05
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Have you ever watched F1 before? I've very rarely, if ever, seen one driver just give up the place once another car gets alongside.
The place wasn't gone so Webber, nor any other driver on the grid, would have just moved over.
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Nath
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: MK
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Just watch it again. Even the commentators, ex F1 drivers, said it was '100% vettels fault'.
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dhdev
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Registered: 22nd Dec 05
Location: Midlands
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I hadn't even heard of F1 before last Sunday 
They were TEAM-MATES, first rule of racing, don't take out your team-mate. If you can see your team-mate and he can't see you, give him some room.
My argument seems to be backed up by Redbulls team principle amongst others, but clearly I'm wrong, cos I've obviously only watched it once 
Lets agree to disagree. I just hope I'm never on the same team as any of you guys, or Webber for that matter 
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AndyKent
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Registered: 3rd Sep 05
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Fair play, but as a racing driver they'll never give up - team mates or not.
Horners comments are interesting though actually. Straight after the race he seemed to say it was Vettels fault, but has said afterwards that Webber should have left more room. Not sure why he'd change his mind, although it is obvious that Vettel is the preferred driver in the team (he got the rear wing upgrade before Mark this weekend and is the one Red Bull have funded to develop in his career).
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dhdev
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Registered: 22nd Dec 05
Location: Midlands
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quote:
Originally posted by AndyKent
Fair play, but as a racing driver they'll never give up - team mates or not.
Horners comments are interesting though actually. Straight after the race he seemed to say it was Vettels fault, but has said afterwards that Webber should have left more room. Not sure why he'd change his mind
I thought post race he said he needed to see the replay before placing blame. Then after seeing the replay his verdict was Webber should've left more room. There is also speculation that aas he is watching live on the pit wall he shouts 'Move!'
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Nath
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: MK
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quote:
Originally posted by dhdev
Lets agree to disagree. I just hope I'm never on the same team as any of you guys, or Webber for that matter
Or Coulthard or Brundle.......
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SetH
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Registered: 15th Jul 01
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Cant believe this is in dispute, only on the mighty CS do we have such expert analysts
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Nath
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: MK
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quote:
Originally posted by SetH
Cant believe this is in dispute, only on the mighty CS do we have such expert analysts
Especially when the CS experts disagree with the actual TV F1 experts
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dhdev
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Registered: 22nd Dec 05
Location: Midlands
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quote:
Originally posted by Nath
quote:
Originally posted by SetH
Cant believe this is in dispute, only on the mighty CS do we have such expert analysts
Especially when the CS experts disagree with the actual TV F1 experts
And the boss of the team in question
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
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quote:
Originally posted by dhdev
Not only was Vettel travelling faster, he was in front. There was enough room, because he had got in front, Webber squeezed him onto the dirty part of the track. Vettel was far enough in front that seeing Webber would be difficult. Webber should've realised this, conceded and moved over.
I think you need to watch a replay -
Webber - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiIc-A--iNU#t=0m42s
Vettel - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiIc-A--iNU#t=1m17s
Vettel didn't perform a clean overtake and wasn't in front! Yes Webber did slightly force him to the outside but Vettel was the one who completely missed judged it and turned in, probably in hope to scare Webber to back down, and side-swiped Webber by planting his rear into Webbers side pod (replay shows Webber trying to prevent the accident by steering away). If Vettel was in front then this wouldn't have happened! They were side-by-side!
As DC said, Vettel should have stayed on that line, room was minimal but there was certainly enough, and tried to beat Webber to the corner.
I don't think the blame should land solely on either driver but Vettel should certainly take the majority of the blame as he certainly didn't keep his cool and instead of going for the safe bet, decided to perform a erratic manoeuvre that jeopardised their positions. Webber should have continued on his line instead of trying to push Vettel as the number one rule is to not take out your team-mate, but it DOESN'T mean he has to hand over the position!
What's worse was Horner and the team hugging Vettel after the incident. As Eddie said, which team manager would be happy with either driver after something like that!!
As for the McLaren's, that was a good bit of racing by both drivers  Although Whitmash (and Co) telling them to reserve fuel was clearly a way to tell them to stop dicking unless you want to look like 'Bulls
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dhdev
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Registered: 22nd Dec 05
Location: Midlands
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Thanks for pointing all that out, I hadn't actually seen any replays 
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
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quote:
Originally posted by dhdev
Thanks for pointing all that out, I hadn't actually seen any replays
It showed in your replies that you haven't got a f'ing clue, so i thought i'd do the honorably thing and help a fellow CS member out 
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Marc
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Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: York
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lol
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dhdev
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Registered: 22nd Dec 05
Location: Midlands
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quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by dhdev
Thanks for pointing all that out, I hadn't actually seen any replays
It showed in your replies that you haven't got a f'ing clue, so i thought i'd do the honorably thing and help a fellow CS member out
Can I ask what your credentials are, seeing as you are such an authority? 
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
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quote:
Originally posted by dhdev
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by dhdev
Thanks for pointing all that out, I hadn't actually seen any replays
It showed in your replies that you haven't got a f'ing clue, so i thought i'd do the honorably thing and help a fellow CS member out
Can I ask what your credentials are, seeing as you are such an authority?
Shouldn't you be watching those replays and getting a clue rather than asking how big is you e-penis questions?
If you're still stuck then one of these might help -
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dhdev
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Registered: 22nd Dec 05
Location: Midlands
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quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by dhdev
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by dhdev
Thanks for pointing all that out, I hadn't actually seen any replays
It showed in your replies that you haven't got a f'ing clue, so i thought i'd do the honorably thing and help a fellow CS member out
Can I ask what your credentials are, seeing as you are such an authority?
Shouldn't you be watching those replays and getting a clue rather than asking how big is you e-penis questions?
I expected too much, I thought I might be dealing with an informed individual
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by dhdev
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by dhdev
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by dhdev
Thanks for pointing all that out, I hadn't actually seen any replays
It showed in your replies that you haven't got a f'ing clue, so i thought i'd do the honorably thing and help a fellow CS member out
Can I ask what your credentials are, seeing as you are such an authority?
Shouldn't you be watching those replays and getting a clue rather than asking how big is you e-penis questions?
I expected too much, I thought I might be dealing with an informed individual
I'm as informed as everyone else that shares the same opinion that Vettel wasn't in front and Webber wasn't solely to blame
If you're after an insight to what actually happened then good luck! RB is keeping quiet about this and hoping it blows over. Even the guy over on another forum that works for RB as an autoclave technician/engineer is keeping schtum!
[Edited on 31-05-2010 by Dom]
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dhdev
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Registered: 22nd Dec 05
Location: Midlands
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quote:
Originally posted by Dom
It showed in your replies that you haven't got a f'ing clue, so i thought i'd do the honorably thing and help a fellow CS member out
So me 'not having a f'ing clue' is purely because my opinion differs from yours.
Nice.
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SportBoy
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Registered: 5th Oct 01
Location: Retford, Nottinghamshire
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great race! amazing thread imo oc 
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by dhdev
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
It showed in your replies that you haven't got a f'ing clue, so i thought i'd do the honorably thing and help a fellow CS member out
So me 'not having a f'ing clue' is purely because my opinion differs from yours.
Nice.
No, it's because for some strange reason you're seeing Vettel as being in front of Webber which clearly is not the case otherwise the accident woulnd't have happened (Vettel's rear hit Webber's side pod! That's not in front, that's side-by-side) And somehow you believe that Webber should have just eased up and given up his position when they were both racing!
Coulthard, Eddie and Davidson all thought Vettel was largely responsible (with EJ adding that it was a race incident and shit happens as it were) and DC stated that there was no need for Vettel to turn in towards Webber and that there was plenty of room to continue on that line for the corner.
Even Lewis said that he didn't understand why Vettel was there in the first place -
quote:
Q. (Michael Schmidt – Auto, Motor und Sport) And Lewis, you were sitting in the first row, how did you see it?
LH: It was great to watch, it was like an action movie in HD or 3D; it was fantastic. It was right ahead of me. No, I got the best view of it obviously but it's the last thing you want to see and fortunately Sebastian is safe but I just saw Sebastian go up the inside and Mark held his line. I don't think he really had much room to move to the right and I don't think there was necessarily a reason for Sebastian to try to move to the right.
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lee303
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Registered: 1st Jul 08
Location: under the nova usually
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this thread is hilarious, webber should have given vettel more room, it was his team mate, who was clearly faster than him, not a driver from another team
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by lee303
this thread is hilarious, webber should have given vettel more room, it was his team mate, who was clearly faster than him, not a driver from another team
As DC said, if Vettel had this immense pace why didn't he just stay on the inner line for another second before coming across, avoiding Webber, for the corner? Fact is, Vettel wasn't far enough ahead for a clean overtake and instead of sticking to the line, he decided to turn into Webber hoping to bully him into giving up the position which just caused an avoidable collision.
Webber had the line and he stuck to his guns, which is completely fair to be honest as they were racing and as a driver you don't just hand over positions! If you want it, then you must get it! The McLaren's demonstrated this perfectly a few laps later with Button coming round the outside of Hamilton at turn 12 to gain pole. Lewis wanted it back, he got it back. Neither of them put each other in a dodgy situation, which is what Vettel did. I've even quoted Lewis saying that there wasn't enough room and that he didn't understand why Vettel was there.
This whole incident just reminds of Vettel taking both of them out at Fuji in 2007, Webber response was - "It's Kids isn't it, kids with not enough experience doing a good job and then they fuck it all up".
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Nath
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: MK
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Quite astonishing that normal folk can even disagree with the opinions of professional racing drivers. If DC and MB said it's '100% Vettels fault' then who are we to argue? Jesus. People are arguing for the sake of arguing now. Webber doesnt have to move if there isn't room to overtake. Which there wasn't, otherwise why did Vettel get half way past and then crash into him? If Vettel wants to try that shit he has to do it in a way so he can come out the other end safely. Which he didn't. Vettel is frustrated as hell at the moment, what with his mechanical failures. He wanted to save face by giving it his all and redeeming himself and got it wrong.
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Rick Draper
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Registered: 10th Feb 01
Location: Cheshire
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I was going to comment but i cannot be fucked. Other than to say IMHO Vettel was to blame.
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Griffiths1991
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Registered: 28th Jul 08
Location: Cheshire
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quote:
Originally posted by Rick Draper
I was going to comment but i cannot be fucked. Other than to say IMHO Vettel was to blame.
This
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