Rick Draper
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Registered: 10th Feb 01
Location: Cheshire
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JonnyJ why have redbull not dominated and stitched up the championship this season then? Going by your usual sporting bollocks if Vettel was so much better than Button he would have been champion by now as there car has been the class of the field all season.
[Edited on 13-11-2010 by Rick Draper]
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Nath
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
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quote:
Originally posted by Rick Draper
Going by your usual sporting bollocks
Really Rick? Really? Did you just say that?
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Marc
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Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: York
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Theres too many City and Oldham fans on here now its hard to keep track.
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Nath
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
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However, the RB isn't as good compared to the rest as the Brawn was. The Brawn car got the rule changes bang on the money at the first time of asking.
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Kerry
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Registered: 5th Oct 01
Location: Norwich
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The thought of tomorrows race excites me
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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quote:
Originally posted by Rick Draper
JonnyJ why have redbull not dominated and stitched up the championship this season then? Going by your usual sporting bollocks if Vettel was so much better than Button he would have been champion by now as there car has been the class of the field all season.
[Edited on 13-11-2010 by Rick Draper]
Are you really comparing the difference between RB and the rest of the field this season to the difference between the Brawn and the rest of the field last year? Really?
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Jamie Walby
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Registered: 15th Nov 04
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quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
He got lucky in the fact he had a far superior car for the first half of the season, no one could touch it and it meant he could stroll to 6 wins out of the first 7 races. He had a massive headstart and when the cars caught up he didnt win 1 single race out of 10  . Also his team mate was Barrichello, hardly the type of formidable team mate who would challenge you for the title, he showed that at Ferrari, which as you rightly put was a far superior car to the rest of the field.
I just dont buy that Button is in the World Class catergory. Put the top 5 drivers in the same car this year and i reckon he would get beat by all 4 of them.
Most WDC titles are won with 6-8 wins over a season. He just did all his winning at the start of the season. By your reckoning all world champs are lucky? I dont think he is the best driver, just dont get why he seems to get a bit of hate. He is a good driver.
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Jamie Walby
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Registered: 15th Nov 04
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quote:
Originally posted by Nath
quote:
Originally posted by Rick Draper
Going by your usual sporting bollocks
Really Rick? Really? Did you just say that?
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Jamie Walby
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Registered: 15th Nov 04
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quote:
Originally posted by Nath
The Brawn car got the rule changes bang on the money at the first time of asking.
Cant hate Button for that
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Rick Draper
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Registered: 10th Feb 01
Location: Cheshire
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quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
quote:
Originally posted by Rick Draper
JonnyJ why have redbull not dominated and stitched up the championship this season then? Going by your usual sporting bollocks if Vettel was so much better than Button he would have been champion by now as there car has been the class of the field all season.
[Edited on 13-11-2010 by Rick Draper]
Are you really comparing the difference between RB and the rest of the field this season to the difference between the Brawn and the rest of the field last year? Really?
Yes i am.
Ross Brawn was open in saying he did not develop the car as much as there rivals especially after mid season. I believe Rubens had the same car did he not and did Jenson not beat him?
If looking at this seasons results 90% of the time redbull have had the best car, they have developed the car throughout the season and yet are only 2nd and 3rd in the championship. Make of that what you will. Also it does not matter if your car is 1 second a lap faster or 2 tenths of a second a lap faster, you still have to take advantage of that and that is something Button did and redbull have not.
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Nath
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: MK
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamie Walby
quote:
Originally posted by Nath
The Brawn car got the rule changes bang on the money at the first time of asking.
Cant hate Button for that
I don;t hate Button.
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Rick Draper
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Registered: 10th Feb 01
Location: Cheshire
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quote:
Originally posted by Nath
However, the RB isn't as good compared to the rest as the Brawn was. The Brawn car got the rule changes bang on the money at the first time of asking.
Then everyone else added double diffusers and wore away at there advantage, they had no advantage by mid season. This season Redbull have had a advantage at almost every single track.
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Jamie Walby
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Registered: 15th Nov 04
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quote:
Originally posted by Nath
quote:
Originally posted by Jamie Walby
quote:
Originally posted by Nath
The Brawn car got the rule changes bang on the money at the first time of asking.
Cant hate Button for that
I don;t hate Button.
Yeah whatever Nath. Hater.
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Nath
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: MK
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Nath
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: MK
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quote:
Originally posted by Rick Draper
quote:
Originally posted by Nath
However, the RB isn't as good compared to the rest as the Brawn was. The Brawn car got the rule changes bang on the money at the first time of asking.
Then everyone else added double diffusers and wore away at there advantage, they had no advantage by mid season. This season Redbull have had a advantage at almost every single track.
The damage had been done.
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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quote:
Originally posted by Rick Draper
quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
quote:
Originally posted by Rick Draper
JonnyJ why have redbull not dominated and stitched up the championship this season then? Going by your usual sporting bollocks if Vettel was so much better than Button he would have been champion by now as there car has been the class of the field all season.
[Edited on 13-11-2010 by Rick Draper]
Are you really comparing the difference between RB and the rest of the field this season to the difference between the Brawn and the rest of the field last year? Really?
Yes i am.
Ross Brawn was open in saying he did not develop the car as much as there rivals especially after mid season. I believe Rubens had the same car did he not and did Jenson not beat him?
If looking at this seasons results 90% of the time redbull have had the best car, they have developed the car throughout the season and yet are only 2nd and 3rd in the championship. Make of that what you will. Also it does not matter if your car is 1 second a lap faster or 2 tenths of a second a lap faster, you still have to take advantage of that and that is something Button did and redbull have not.
Where did i say Barrichello was a world class driver? Infact if you look back i pointed out why he beat Rubeuns, because hes very average, like he was at ferrari when they had a far superior car and schumacher pissed it. I could've beaten Barrichello 
How can you cover over the fact that when the others caught up to Brawn he didnt win 1 single race, not one. Hes decent but nothing more than that.
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Jamie Walby
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Registered: 15th Nov 04
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There have only been 2 hatricks (Pole, Fastest Lap and Race Win) this season so far. Both to Fernando Alonso.
Vettel has had 10 poles (including today) and has only converted that to a victory twice (so far)
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Jamie Walby
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Registered: 15th Nov 04
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quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
quote:
Originally posted by Rick Draper
quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
quote:
Originally posted by Rick Draper
JonnyJ why have redbull not dominated and stitched up the championship this season then? Going by your usual sporting bollocks if Vettel was so much better than Button he would have been champion by now as there car has been the class of the field all season.
[Edited on 13-11-2010 by Rick Draper]
Are you really comparing the difference between RB and the rest of the field this season to the difference between the Brawn and the rest of the field last year? Really?
Yes i am.
Ross Brawn was open in saying he did not develop the car as much as there rivals especially after mid season. I believe Rubens had the same car did he not and did Jenson not beat him?
If looking at this seasons results 90% of the time redbull have had the best car, they have developed the car throughout the season and yet are only 2nd and 3rd in the championship. Make of that what you will. Also it does not matter if your car is 1 second a lap faster or 2 tenths of a second a lap faster, you still have to take advantage of that and that is something Button did and redbull have not.
Where did i say Barrichello was a world class driver? Infact if you look back i pointed out why he beat Rubeuns, because hes very average, like he was at ferrari when they had a far superior car and schumacher pissed it. I could've beaten Barrichello
How can you cover over the fact that when the others caught up to Brawn he didnt win 1 single race, not one. Hes decent but nothing more than that.
 You dont think Rubens is world class??? May I point to the fact he hold the Top Gear track record?
I agree with you RE: Button. Im just blinkered by the fact I fancy him.
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
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quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
quote:
Originally posted by Tom
I hope button takes alonso out on the first corner, the two red bulls take eachother out on the 1st corner and hamilton wins
That would be the dream I still think they should use Button as a battering ram at the first corner but the shit bastard probably couldnt even qualify high enough to get anywhere near the top 3.
Seeing as Lewis is all but out I'll be cheering on Webber. Hate Alonso and hate Red Bull and they clearly wanted Vettel to win it so it would shove it in their face a bit too.
Fancy him to do it too. Chances are it will be a RB 1-2 in Quali so as long as they get a good start they should pull away from the dirty spic and Vettel will probs have to let Mark through near the end.
I think his WDC states otherwise
You got to be a complete imbecile to think Hamilton was unlucky, Christ, even he admitted that he was at fault in both Monza and Singapore retirements. In Monza he didn't just rub tyres with Massa, Hamilton decided to place his car in a closing spot on the apex of a corner which resulted in his front end taking on Massa's rear. Oddly enough the rear of an F1 car is considerably stronger than the front  And in Singapore he decided to take Webber on the outside when it was clear that Webber wasn't going to yield the position, plus Webber had the racing line! It was a rushed manoeuvre which resulted in a retirement that could have been easily avoided if he wasn't so hot headed.
And that's the problem with Hamilton, he get's worked up far too easily, almost Alonso/Vettel easily, which just ends up him pulling stupid cocky manoeuvres that rarely end well. And I believe this cockiness has come from a mixture of starting in a top team and him winning the WDC far too early in his career. He simply hasn't had to struggle like a lot of drivers, notably Webber, 7 seasons before he got a decent car; Button, 9 seasons before he had a decent car, perhaps with the exception of 2004 where BAR 6 got him 3rd in the WDC. And it's this struggle that I believe makes a decent and worthy driver. They haven't relied on the raw pace of the car because they simply haven't had it. Instead they've had to learn to deal with various situations to try and gain an advantage ie: Button is vastly superior in predicting tyre choices and track than Hamilton.
Plus I’ve never said Hamilton is shit, far from it in fact. I just don't think the sunshine falls out of his arse like a number of people on here believe.
And you can’t say Button’s WDC was purely down to his car last season, that’s complete betty swollocks. I mean, Massa’s is in one of the best teams in F1 and has had some brilliant cars, yet his driving isn’t exactly setting the world alight (closest to a WDC is 2nd in 2008)? 
Anyways back to Abu Dhabi (this is starting to sound like one of Paul_J’s essays with youtube vids!), brilliant quali today. It'll certainly be a decent race. But I’m hoping Button will let Webber through to give him a better change at the title, although that’s very unlikely. In reality i think Vettel will win the race, unless he suffers engine failure, and Alonso will get the title!
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Rick Draper
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Registered: 10th Feb 01
Location: Cheshire
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quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
quote:
Originally posted by Rick Draper
quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
quote:
Originally posted by Rick Draper
JonnyJ why have redbull not dominated and stitched up the championship this season then? Going by your usual sporting bollocks if Vettel was so much better than Button he would have been champion by now as there car has been the class of the field all season.
[Edited on 13-11-2010 by Rick Draper]
Are you really comparing the difference between RB and the rest of the field this season to the difference between the Brawn and the rest of the field last year? Really?
Yes i am.
Ross Brawn was open in saying he did not develop the car as much as there rivals especially after mid season. I believe Rubens had the same car did he not and did Jenson not beat him?
If looking at this seasons results 90% of the time redbull have had the best car, they have developed the car throughout the season and yet are only 2nd and 3rd in the championship. Make of that what you will. Also it does not matter if your car is 1 second a lap faster or 2 tenths of a second a lap faster, you still have to take advantage of that and that is something Button did and redbull have not.
Where did i say Barrichello was a world class driver? Infact if you look back i pointed out why he beat Rubeuns, because hes very average, like he was at ferrari when they had a far superior car and schumacher pissed it. I could've beaten Barrichello
How can you cover over the fact that when the others caught up to Brawn he didnt win 1 single race, not one. Hes decent but nothing more than that.
Maybe because at no point from the middle of the season onwards did Button have the best car. Redbull were the first to overtake Brawn then Mclaren did the same meaning Button ended the season in the 3rd fastest car
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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Hang on i never insinuated that you thought Lewis was shit, i was just stating that i didnt think Button was World Champion worthy. I know Hamilton makes mistakes, but its why i like him and you have to take the odd risk in F1 if you are going to come out on top. Its not like Button and Webber dont make them, just look at Korea, more so Webber as his was totally unforced and his crash in Valencia. Button for me just seems to tootle along and hope for others to fall off (with the exception of Brazil last season where i will admit he was excellent, i wish he would produce more of that!)
I dont even know where this Lewis/Button argument has come from tbh, the only reason i put in Lewis was because they drive the same car so it easy to compare quality of driver without the car getting in the way and this season Lewis has done a lot better than Button in Quali and better than him in the championship.
And I'm willing to bet he will beat him again next season.
As for Massa, i think hes good, better than Button but he needs to leave Ferrari. Remember they give EVERYTHING to Alonso, he is clearly seen as the Barrichello of the team. Add to the fact he is probably still suffering from almost dying at the wheel and you can possibly see why he hasnt exactly done much this season.
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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quote:
Originally posted by Rick Draper
quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
quote:
Originally posted by Rick Draper
quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
quote:
Originally posted by Rick Draper
JonnyJ why have redbull not dominated and stitched up the championship this season then? Going by your usual sporting bollocks if Vettel was so much better than Button he would have been champion by now as there car has been the class of the field all season.
[Edited on 13-11-2010 by Rick Draper]
Are you really comparing the difference between RB and the rest of the field this season to the difference between the Brawn and the rest of the field last year? Really?
Yes i am.
Ross Brawn was open in saying he did not develop the car as much as there rivals especially after mid season. I believe Rubens had the same car did he not and did Jenson not beat him?
If looking at this seasons results 90% of the time redbull have had the best car, they have developed the car throughout the season and yet are only 2nd and 3rd in the championship. Make of that what you will. Also it does not matter if your car is 1 second a lap faster or 2 tenths of a second a lap faster, you still have to take advantage of that and that is something Button did and redbull have not.
Where did i say Barrichello was a world class driver? Infact if you look back i pointed out why he beat Rubeuns, because hes very average, like he was at ferrari when they had a far superior car and schumacher pissed it. I could've beaten Barrichello
How can you cover over the fact that when the others caught up to Brawn he didnt win 1 single race, not one. Hes decent but nothing more than that.
Maybe because at no point from the middle of the season onwards did Button have the best car. Redbull were the first to overtake Brawn then Mclaren did the same meaning Button ended the season in the 3rd fastest car
So the only reason he won was because he had the fastest car for half a season, racked up some wins while his only possible challenger was an aging Barrichello and hung on for dear life. Thanks, my point is proven.
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Rob_Quads
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Registered: 29th Mar 01
Location: southampton
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I think the big thing with the RB car is although its the "fastest" in race conditions its often not the fastest. They seem to be able to blitz the qualifiers but then the McLarens are right up with them at the race.
The last couple McLaren have dropped back as the developments they have done have not worked where as RB have been dropping them in and away they have gone without too much fuss about them.
There are so many "what ifs" this season. Yes RB could be miles ahead if they had not crashed out so stupidly and taking each other but also you could say Hamilton threw away 30/40 points by screwing up. All swings and roundabout.
I think tommorows race is going to be VERY interesting. Fingers crossed Button can shove it down the inside of Alonso and see what he does. He can't afford to try and drive him off the course.
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mwg
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Registered: 19th Feb 04
Location: South Lakes
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everyone is waving their willy's around in here
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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quote:
Originally posted by mwg
everyone is waving their willy's around in here
Does it make you all excited?
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