Corsa_Sport21
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Registered: 13th Apr 08
Location: Leven, Fife. Drives : 205 GTi
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That certainly dosnt look like the Nova is trying in that vid.Infact it looks and sounds like he has let off to let you past.
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Mike
Organiser: North West and North Wales
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Registered: 20th May 06
Location: nr. Skipton, North Yorkshire
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Thinking about it at TVL last year I overtook a supercharged VXR8  For some reason though he was absolutely crawling round
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DannyB
Premium Member
Registered: 6th Feb 08
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There's no chance that xe nova is on full chat there, or trying for that matter you look like you're in kamikaze mode aswell Mike when you go past
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Mike
Organiser: North West and North Wales
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Registered: 20th May 06
Location: nr. Skipton, North Yorkshire
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quote:
Originally posted by Corsa_Sport21
That certainly dosnt look like the Nova is trying in that vid.Infact it looks and sounds like he has let off to let you past.
He slid wide so I took the opportunity, I'm not gonna deny that and he even mentions in a comment underneath that when the rain started he was just understeering. Obviously that video doesn't show it but I'd been trying to find a way passed for about 4 laps and had been chasing him for about 6 and he just wasn't having it because he could see he was pulling away everytime it went straight but after pushing and pushing I eventually forced the mistake when he tried to enter the corner faster even though as you can see it'd just started raining. Anyway that's enough justifying myself to people on the internetz, don't want people thinking I actually care
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Corsa_Sport21
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Registered: 13th Apr 08
Location: Leven, Fife. Drives : 205 GTi
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You dont have to justify yourself to any1.I havnt seen you on track but from what ive read on here,you can hold your own so i believe it.
Just dont believe the Nova was trying and i wouldnt really say you forced the mistake either when it was his 1st time out on track.He made his own mistake as he didnt know the track.
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DannyB
Premium Member
Registered: 6th Feb 08
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
a Vec GSi.
For the track?
Look on VVOC, pretty sure there's a few on there I've noticed dirt cheap but need work doing, ideal if so
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alan-g-w
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Registered: 9th Nov 07
Location: Glasgow
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I don't know where this 'smaller engined, less powerful cars are faster than bigger engined more powerful cars' concept comes from tbh.
As C_S21's saying, I'm not going to dispute whether you can drive or not. But if you're saying that you were faster in your 1.2 Corsa than a guy in a 2.0 Nova here's a question to you, and anyone else that has the same train of thought - what could you do a faster lap in; the Corsa or that Nova?
For the record, I'm trying not to argue anything, just getting a discussion going.
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willay
Moderator
Organiser: South East, National Events
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Registered: 10th Nov 02
Location: Roydon, Essex
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whos up for some carnage
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alan-g-w
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Registered: 9th Nov 07
Location: Glasgow
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I think we should have some ceegars and tequila and talk it out.
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Adam-D
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Registered: 11th May 02
Location: Cheshire
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in gonna need to get cracking with gettin a car ready 
really need to sell my cage'd rolling shell and my coupe to put money into my new vaux project 
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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quote:
Originally posted by alan-g-w
I don't know where this 'smaller engined, less powerful cars are faster than bigger engined more powerful cars' concept comes from tbh.
Because there are numerous examples of that being the case.
In most cases, the faster cars are either not set up right or not driven properly.
But in every case, power is not the deciding factor. And having not ever driven an XE Nova, I can't answer your other question. But if it were not set up right, I wouldn't have as much confidence as I do in mine.
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alan-g-w
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Registered: 9th Nov 07
Location: Glasgow
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Right, so why not start with the more powerful car in the first place and get it set up properly then go from there?
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Ben G
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Registered: 12th Jan 07
Location: Essex
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i will be in sharm el sheik being eating by a shark then.
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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quote:
Originally posted by alan-g-w
Right, so why not start with the more powerful car in the first place and get it set up properly then go from there?
Because it's generally more hassle or more expensive.
Plus it feels good to get the better of more powerful stuff in the underdog. I see the point of having power, I just like not having it. Silly position I know, but it's immensely satisfying.
Plus Oly will have comparable power to weight compared to an XE.
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Mike
Organiser: North West and North Wales
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Registered: 20th May 06
Location: nr. Skipton, North Yorkshire
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quote:
Originally posted by alan-g-w
I don't know where this 'smaller engined, less powerful cars are faster than bigger engined more powerful cars' concept comes from tbh.
As C_S21's saying, I'm not going to dispute whether you can drive or not. But if you're saying that you were faster in your 1.2 Corsa than a guy in a 2.0 Nova here's a question to you, and anyone else that has the same train of thought - what could you do a faster lap in; the Corsa or that Nova?
For the record, I'm trying not to argue anything, just getting a discussion going.
Going by the facts that I know, I don't think it would be unreasonable to say I'd be likely to lap faster in the Nova than my Corsa, purely down to the fact that it was the Nova driver's first time on track. I know I've got a lot faster since my first time on track so it stands to reason that the Nova wasn't being driven at 100% but nevertheless, in that situation, my 1.2 was quicker.
As Ian says the low power vs. big power thing has been proven numerous times. Another example from me is when I came up against Fonz in his MX-5. Well known as a great handling car, light (around 900-1000kg I think) and when his was rolling roaded last month 103bhp. Me in my 72bhp Corsa which the internet would have you believe cannot negotiate a corner with out understeering into oblivion, weighing in at approx. 880kg and after a lap of being sat behind the MX-5, overtook him without any issue and then once off track Fonz came over telling me how he didn't believe it was a 1.2. I hope that helps
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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My favorite quote from Oulton was my friend of a friend in the green 205, which is Mi16 on TBs - 'what the FUCK is in that Puma'
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Mike
Organiser: North West and North Wales
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Registered: 20th May 06
Location: nr. Skipton, North Yorkshire
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I thinking about that one just, the fact he turned up in a race suit topped it off beautifully
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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I beat him wearing traineeees
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Adam-D
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Registered: 11th May 02
Location: Cheshire
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i had similar experience in anglesey witha 1.8 16v tb kit car.
my lil h killed it.
got past and pulled away. they wouldnt belive it was a 1.6 8v
a phrase is quite apt.
"all the gear. . no idea"
im not a great driver. i dont have a amazing car. but i love the challenge of trying to carry speed and get the lines right
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alan-g-w
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Registered: 9th Nov 07
Location: Glasgow
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
quote:
Originally posted by alan-g-w
Right, so why not start with the more powerful car in the first place and get it set up properly then go from there?
Because it's generally more hassle or more expensive.
Plus it feels good to get the better of more powerful stuff in the underdog. I see the point of having power, I just like not having it. Silly position I know, but it's immensely satisfying.
Plus Oly will have comparable power to weight compared to an XE.
That's the type of answer I always thought the reason behind it was. For personal gratification and for the fact there's less money and hassle involved, I can totally understand that.
I just don't like it when people take the attitude of 'there's no point in sticking a 2.0 in' when it's glaringly obvious why you would - to go faster.
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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Depends if it would actually improve your experience though, cornering speeds wouldn't be affected so you're only really braking earlier or harder, which takes more skill and nerve to take full advantage. I don't brake late enough anyway and I certainly wouldn't be if I was having to lose more pace.
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alan-g-w
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Registered: 9th Nov 07
Location: Glasgow
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike B
quote:
Originally posted by alan-g-w
I don't know where this 'smaller engined, less powerful cars are faster than bigger engined more powerful cars' concept comes from tbh.
As C_S21's saying, I'm not going to dispute whether you can drive or not. But if you're saying that you were faster in your 1.2 Corsa than a guy in a 2.0 Nova here's a question to you, and anyone else that has the same train of thought - what could you do a faster lap in; the Corsa or that Nova?
For the record, I'm trying not to argue anything, just getting a discussion going.
Going by the facts that I know, I don't think it would be unreasonable to say I'd be likely to lap faster in the Nova than my Corsa, purely down to the fact that it was the Nova driver's first time on track. I know I've got a lot faster since my first time on track so it stands to reason that the Nova wasn't being driven at 100% but nevertheless, in that situation, my 1.2 was quicker.
As Ian says the low power vs. big power thing has been proven numerous times. Another example from me is when I came up against Fonz in his MX-5. Well known as a great handling car, light (around 900-1000kg I think) and when his was rolling roaded last month 103bhp. Me in my 72bhp Corsa which the internet would have you believe cannot negotiate a corner with out understeering into oblivion, weighing in at approx. 880kg and after a lap of being sat behind the MX-5, overtook him without any issue and then once off track Fonz came over telling me how he didn't believe it was a 1.2. I hope that helps
But all that proves is that you are a better driver mate, not that the Corsa is a fast car. Again, if it was you in the Corsa or you in the MX-5, what do you reckon would be faster?
It's like comparing a 17 year old who's just passed their test driving a rally prepped Evo to an experienced driver in a road going equivelant. Obviously the more experienced driver's going to go faster since they know more about what they're doing.
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alan-g-w
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Registered: 9th Nov 07
Location: Glasgow
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
Depends if it would actually improve your experience though, cornering speeds wouldn't be affected so you're only really braking earlier or harder, which takes more skill and nerve to take full advantage. I don't brake late enough anyway and I certainly wouldn't be if I was having to lose more pace.
People obviously have different ways of wanting to drive around a track. If you're happy to just go around at a reasonable pace and set consistent laps, that's fine. But if it was myself in that position I'd want to be going faster on every part of the track - which would obviously mean better brakes, suspension and anything else associated as well as engine mods.
Basically it comes down to budget. I'd be willing to bet that anyone subscribing to this theory of smaller engine + less power = better experience would change that belief at the drop of a hat if they had the means to. As in if they came into a large amount of cash they would probably modify the balls off their previously medium-performance motor.
[Edited on 23-12-2010 by alan-g-w]
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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It's also a question of experience for me and if I was going faster I know I would get more lazy in terms of driving the corners more quickly. I would rather practice in a slower car until such time I'm ready to upgrade.
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Mike
Organiser: North West and North Wales
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Registered: 20th May 06
Location: nr. Skipton, North Yorkshire
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I'm with Ian on that one too. Budget was never a reason that I stuck to the 1.2. The only reason I'm changing to a 1.6 is circumstance, I got given it fitted in a shell and it would've been graft to swap it with the 1.2 but it's a small enough step up to mean I can still have the extra power but not get lazy on track, I'll still have plenty (infact more) cars to offer me a run for my money.
I did want a 1.8 at one point but after talking to someone who used to race 2CVs, he convinced me that sticking with the 1.2 would be more fun due to the fact that to try and stay in it on track, you've constantly gotta be balls out, maximum attack mode.
Being the underdog, you know that you've worked hard for pretty much every victory, that's what makes it great imo
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