Eddx14xe
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Registered: 12th Jan 10
Location: Hertfordshire
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Im with Jim and Steve. As said 60 mph without a turbo is the same as going 60 mph with one.
Unless he is using it on a track then there is no need to.
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broster
Premium Member
Registered: 6th Dec 02
Location: Drives: E39
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quote:
Originally posted by Eddx14xe
Im with Jim and Steve. As said 60 mph without a turbo is the same as going 60 mph with one.
Unless he is using it on a track then there is no need to.
apart from the fact that you can get to 60mph a lot faster with a turbo so in some situations where you would previously only be doing 40mph, you may be doing 60mph and then you will need to slow down faster.
thats like saying a 523 bmw should have the same brakes as a 540 or a 540 the same as an m5
still can only do a maximum of 70mph....
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Mertin
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Registered: 12th Oct 05
Location: Scotland
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Alot of people say 312mm brakes on the ibiza is a must have mod and some even say before a stage 1 remap.
Iv been running stage 1 for over a year, with motorfactor discs and ferrodo ds2500 pads and never felt that their not up to the job. Sometimes its better to spend money and upgrade the standard set up if you can. Decent quality pads, discs along with fresh fluid and bled properly. Some people probably instantly think bigger is always. Etter and has to be done.
I know I said decent discs and Im running motorfactors but that was because they were brand new 2nd hand for £20, once their fucked then Il get a set of brembo discs or similar. But up until now and over a year later their still fine
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Eddx14xe
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Registered: 12th Jan 10
Location: Hertfordshire
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by broster
quote:
Originally posted by Eddx14xe
Im with Jim and Steve. As said 60 mph without a turbo is the same as going 60 mph with one.
Unless he is using it on a track then there is no need to.
apart from the fact that you can get to 60mph a lot faster with a turbo so in some situations whereyou would previously only be doing 40mph, you may be doing 60mph and then you will need to slow down faster.
thats like saying a 523 bmw should have the same brakes as a 540 or a 540 the same as an m5
still can only do a maximum of 70mph....
But if you get there quicker, depending on the distance covered, you will have longer to stop.
For example, both cars have a distance of 1 mile to get to 100mph then stop. The standard car gets there in say 1/2 a mile, so it has 1/2 to come to a stop. Whereas the turbo may get there in 1/4 of a mile, so it has 3/4 of a mile to stop.
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Scotty C
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Registered: 6th Nov 05
Location: Kidderminster Drives: 1.6 16v Sport
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The car would be heavier from the engine conversion. So bigger brakes would be needed in theory
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broster
Premium Member
Registered: 6th Dec 02
Location: Drives: E39
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Eddx14xe
quote:
Originally posted by broster
quote:
Originally posted by Eddx14xe
Im with Jim and Steve. As said 60 mph without a turbo is the same as going 60 mph with one.
Unless he is using it on a track then there is no need to.
apart from the fact that you can get to 60mph a lot faster with a turbo so in some situations whereyou would previously only be doing 40mph, you may be doing 60mph and then you will need to slow down faster.
thats like saying a 523 bmw should have the same brakes as a 540 or a 540 the same as an m5
still can only do a maximum of 70mph....
But if you get there quicker, depending on the distance covered, you will have longer to stop.
For example, both cars have a distance of 1 mile to get to 100mph then stop. The standard car gets there in say 1/2 a mile, so it has 1/2 to come to a stop. Whereas the turbo may get there in 1/4 of a mile, so it has 3/4 of a mile to stop.
thats not how things happen in life tho, and everyone will drive with some "spirit" every now and then!
ill use a focus rs as an example as iv driven loads in various forms.
std car with 300bhp, brakes are sufficient (not great but they work)
do a 400bhp upgrade, now the car is lots faster, std brakes overheat as its now doing (for example)15mph faster on the same stretch of road, the corner is in the same place, do you a- deal with this and brake earlier to deal with the fact the brakes will over heat after a few heavy stopping sessions, or do you be, upgrade the brakes to deal with the power better? more stopping power, bigger surface area to dissipate heat, better pad compounds etc!?
i know what i would rather do!
another example, my m5, has fully floating disc and bell setup from std, biggish pad area, but hauling up 400bhp on a b road soon kills them, set of stop tech 6 pots, job done! no issues what so ever!
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adiohead
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Registered: 28th Sep 01
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People should do brake downgrades.
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Eddx14xe
Member
Registered: 12th Jan 10
Location: Hertfordshire
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I agree with you, in the sense that bigger brakes are always better. Im not denying that. Especially when your on track (which I stated) and on a 'spirited' drive. I only have a 90bhp corsa and sometimes i wish my brakes were better. So when your getting to bigger/faster cars, like the Focus RS and your M5, I fully understand where you're coming from.
What me and I think Jim is saying, is when you are driving normally, within the law then the standard brakes are sufficient.
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kennySRi
Member
Registered: 12th Nov 10
Location: Lancashire
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Eddx14xe
quote:
Originally posted by broster
quote:
Originally posted by Eddx14xe
Im with Jim and Steve. As said 60 mph without a turbo is the same as going 60 mph with one.
Unless he is using it on a track then there is no need to.
apart from the fact that you can get to 60mph a lot faster with a turbo so in some situations whereyou would previously only be doing 40mph, you may be doing 60mph and then you will need to slow down faster.
thats like saying a 523 bmw should have the same brakes as a 540 or a 540 the same as an m5
still can only do a maximum of 70mph....
But if you get there quicker, depending on the distance covered, you will have longer to stop.
For example, both cars have a distance of 1 mile to get to 100mph then stop. The standard car gets there in say 1/2 a mile, so it has 1/2 to come to a stop. Whereas the turbo may get there in 1/4 of a mile, so it has 3/4 of a mile to stop.
And then you could say when the turbo car reaches 100mph in just 1/4 mile then the driver feels that he could get another 50mph out of it before he has to start braking at the same distance left when he used to when the car was standard and only got to 100mph in that space. 
Basically, yes the weight of the car could mean that you dont have to change the brakes but when you have a more powerful car you will be doing higher speeds than you would be doing in a slower car but still in the same enviroment so when for example tha kid runs out into the road you will need brakes to make up for the extra speed you're doing.
On a track then yes, bigger brakes make sense in every way.
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broster
Premium Member
Registered: 6th Dec 02
Location: Drives: E39
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Eddx14xe
I agree with you, in the sense that bigger brakes are always better. Im not denying that. Especially when your on track (which I stated) and on a 'spirited' drive. I only have a 90bhp corsa and sometimes i wish my brakes were better. So when your getting to bigger/faster cars, like the Focus RS and your M5, I fully understand where you're coming from.
What me and I think Jim is saying, is when you are driving normally, within the law then the standard brakes are sufficient.
well yes, my misses jetta diesel has an extra 100bhp over standard and makes 400lbft of torque, however she doesn't need bigger brakes as she doesn't drive it like i would, when i drive it hard i feel the brakes let it down.
but thats like saying whats the point in making it faster in the first place lol! 
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Adam_B
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Registered: 13th Dec 00
Location: Lancashire
User status: Offline
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big brakes are cool.
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whitter45
Member
Registered: 15th Nov 02
Location: Norton
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be a good question for Steve to answer as he building his Puma for track days so has uprated his brakes
At the moment he has used it on public roads so he can comment on standard against uprated with the same power
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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my brakes are pretty ott for road use lol, you only have to breath on them at low speeds
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3CorsaMeal
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Registered: 11th Apr 02
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
you only have to breath on them
no wonder your stub axle melted 
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alan-g-w
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Registered: 9th Nov 07
Location: Glasgow
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by 3CorsaMeal
Just watching someone on a forum fit massive brakes, which weigh loads more than standard and also having to space wheels out 30mm to fit them, which will affect the handling.
The reason for big brakes is "fitting a VR6 turbo"
Do you really need bigger brakes because your adding more power? I can see the benefit on a track days, but on normal roads surely the car is going to be more or less the same weight and you are going to be slowing from similar speeds.
Are you seiously asking whether bigger brakes are needed if you'e going to be going the exact same speeds and drive in the exact same manner?
You're getting less and less subtle with your trolling buddy
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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The compromise of larger brakes is a larger unsprung mass, which means the wheel can't react as fast, which generally has a detrimental effect on handling.
If you're going to drive no faster, no you would not do that to yourself.
If you are then sound.
[Edited on 19-01-2012 by Ian]
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broster
Premium Member
Registered: 6th Dec 02
Location: Drives: E39
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
The compromise of larger brakes is a larger unsprung mass, which means the wheel can't react as fast, which generally has a detrimental effect on handling.
[Edited on 19-01-2012 by Ian]
not always, my new bigger brakes are lighter than the std items. most decent 4-6pot conversions with a separate bell and rotor are lighter than the std set ups i have found
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alan-g-w
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Registered: 9th Nov 07
Location: Glasgow
User status: Offline
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Also, the sky is blue and grass is green Ian
[Edited on 19-01-2012 by alan-g-w]
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Offline
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If you can find brakes with better performance which are also lighter then game on, win win.
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Graham88
Member
Registered: 16th Apr 07
Location: South East Kent Drives: E46 M3
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Brakes have always been the first mod on my cars, partly to stop brake fade. They are more important than power
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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My wilwood 6 pots weigh less than the standard 250mm brakes 
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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They are lightweight billet though
[Edited on 19-01-2012 by Steve]
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chris_uk
Premium Member
Registered: 8th Jul 03
User status: Offline
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If you can lock your wheels up using standard brakes then there is no point in upgrading the brakes.. you would be better buying better, grippier tyres.
even then i would probably upgrade the pads rather than the discs..
[Edited on 19-01-2012 by chris_uk]
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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Eh? That doesn't take into account fade or unsprung mass
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Jambo
Member
Registered: 8th Sep 01
Location: Maidenhead, Drives: VXR Arctic
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I like Steves brakes.
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