Baskey
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Registered: 31st May 06
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quote:
Originally posted by Robin
Bear in mind that when technology becomes mainstream it becomes affordable.
When it first came out, the model T Ford was $21k in today's money, ten years later it was the equivalent of $7k and had better spec.
I know electric cars aren't a new thing but they're becoming more commonplace. The pioneering ones will be expensive but they will come down in price and the range will increase over time.
Correct; however what happens when they do become affordable ? Every home plugging in multiple cars on charge all night every night.
Energy prices will go through the roof with the extra demand and lack of availability. The current system struggles when everyone sticks the kettle on at half time when England are playing
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Robin
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Registered: 7th Jan 04
Location: Northants Drives: Clio 182 Cup
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Same as (fossil) fuel prices then, supply and demand and all that.
As long as a full charge is cheaper than 100 miles worth of fuel would be, it's fine.
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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The Model T thing isn't a good comparison here imo.
The production costs came down because he was able to make the process of building them more efficient. Although motors and batteries will get better and cheaper (as does everything), it's a completely different set of challenges that are needing overcome.
Energy prices rising don't just affect your car either, if energy prices rise because drivers are now spending it charging cars instead of on petrol or diesel, it also costs significantly more to live in your house.
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AndyKent
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Registered: 3rd Sep 05
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Strap solar panels to electric cars = free travel.
Might need to make them more effective at converting energy to counter the weight penalty of course.....
Cars in general need to be made massively lighter. I don't think a combo of electric and petrol is the future, you make it less efficient by constantly dragging around a lump of metal engine.
For example, why are the Nissan and Renault electric cars one and a half tonnes? Its not all battery I'm sure.
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antnee
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Registered: 30th Dec 07
Location: Cov Drives: Clio 197
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There is a leaf available for about 20k, granted its a base spec though.
Any hybrid cars, or range extenders (IC engine as a generator) will only be used as an interim. Electric cars are the future.
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Jambo
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Registered: 8th Sep 01
Location: Maidenhead, Drives: VXR Arctic
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Renault Zoe is a biscuit below 14k.
Zero tax (for now) zero emissions (better than a carcinogenic diesel) cheap to charge, lasts 100miles average (more on max figures but Renault aren't like the rest and have tried to release realistic figures, unlike their petrol turbo engines  )
The only bit that is prohibitive is the battery. You can't own it, just lease it. Good and bad, it means that its fully
Maintained and warrantied, but it costs £70 p/m. Included in this is if you want to do a long distance holiday etc, they give you a Clio/Megane to go on hols with all covered in lease. Bad thing is its a min of £70 p/m. It's buy no means "cheap" but neither are 95% of cars on sale today.
So buying a cheaper Clio for eg may work for some of you higher mile commuters, but to lower mile uses it makes more sense in some ways than a diesel. Every time you purchase fuel it is a consumable with zero return. Convert
what you spend on fuel to contribution in cost towards a new car that doesn't need to warm up on the short journey to work or need a long run to regenerate the dpf etc. it's not so crazy.
I still think it would be a very limiting only car choice for most. But not all.
I don't think they will flop, but I don't necessarily believe that it will be the only option. I think it will be many different solutions for different segments for different people. There is not one single answer.
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djgritt
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Registered: 1st Nov 07
Location: Dorset Drives: Focus ST / Hyundai i20N
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quote:
Originally posted by antnee
Electric cars are the future.
Not the foreseeable future though.
I personally don't expect ERVs to become a/the main form of transport within my lifetime - there are still too many limitations to the technology, be it the range of the vehicles, cost of technology for manufacture, cost of purchase/maintenance, infrastructure for charging systems etc etc
I couldn't use an Electric vehicle for my needs atall, not for a long while.
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
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Tesla seem to be only one of a handful of manufactures that appear to be really pushing the electric car envelope (and battery technology used is vehicles) in creating actual usable cars, and not the typical small wanky city cars, with decent range and performance, ie - the Model S - ~300 mile range, 0-60mph in ~5 seconds and doesn't look too shabby -
Granted it isn't cheap, starts around $60k US (£30k rumored UK price), but then Elon Musk (bloke behind Tesla) stated that it was primarily a test-bed for the technology and to get funding into the company (which it has done).
And now they're building a more affordable (rumored to be fiesta/focus pricing) car, the Model X -
Certainly electric cars are the way forward in terms of environmental saving; there's no point thinking of money saving because you'll be taxed eventually for the privilege once it becomes the norm. Granted battery technology and associated costs are the current limiting issue but there have been a few advances in the last year that will hopefully see that changing.
Edit - Tesla are also installing solar powered fast chargers around California (Musk's plan is to get them installed on all major routes throughout the US and eventually globally) which are free to use for Tesla customers and, currently, provide 50% battery charge within 30 minutes.
[Edited on 17-07-2013 by Dom]
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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Tesla uses a load of 18650's in the battery packs.
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GB123
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Registered: 21st Nov 11
Location: Kent
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Fiskers look pretty good too, think they're going bankrupt though:
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
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quote:
Originally posted by John
Tesla uses a load of 18650's in the battery packs.
Yup - bit more info/pics on this thread -
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/13121-Inside-the-Tesla-battery-pack
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
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quote:
Originally posted by GB123
Fiskers look pretty good too, think they're going bankrupt though:
http://www.blogcdn.com/green.autoblog.com/media/2011/04/08-2012-fisker-karma-fd.jpg
For a hybrid they looked pretty decent but stupidly expensive for it was (slower than a Model S) - $110K for base model.
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tom130691
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Registered: 13th Sep 08
Location: Daventry
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lithium batterys are the commonly used ones,
theres not enough lithium in the world for every car to be replaced by lithium battery powered cars.
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tom130691
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Registered: 13th Sep 08
Location: Daventry
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why dont you drive one ant ? you seem very keen for them
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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quote:
Originally posted by tom130691
theres not enough lithium in the world for every car to be replaced by lithium battery powered cars.
Where is this stat from? Don't think its even slightly correct.
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deano87
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Registered: 21st Oct 06
Location: Bedfordshire Drives: Ford Fiesta
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As soon as "everyone" is in electric cars with zero emissions (what about the power station  ) they will introduce road pricing.
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Jambo
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Registered: 8th Sep 01
Location: Maidenhead, Drives: VXR Arctic
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Tesla model S is very nice
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Rob E
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Registered: 1st Jan 06
Location: Madeley, Stafford....I want to live back in Wales!
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quote:
Originally posted by Dom
Certainly electric cars are the way forward in terms of environmental saving
[Edited on 17-07-2013 by Dom]
I completely disagree. An electric car is currently more damaging to the environment than its fossil fuel based counterpart.
One thing manufacturers don't present in their facts is the amount of emissions produced mining "rare earth metals" such as nickel, copper and neodymium to refine the batteries and motor magnets. Your average hybrid car battery manufacturing produces aroung 10kgs of sulfur-oxide emissions (5 percent of the hybrid's lifetime emissions) compared to 1kg for a conventional car battery (0.5% of the conventional petrol car's lifetime emissions)
Toyota admited that the production of it's Prius requires more energy and emits more carbon dioxide than the production of its gas-only models.
I thoroughly believe that electric is the future of transport though. It just requires a lot more refinement with regards to manufacturing processes and a much better energy storage solution than what is currently available. There are some really smart storage solutions about already, but as always - cost plays a major role in holding it back.
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antnee
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Registered: 30th Dec 07
Location: Cov Drives: Clio 197
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Technology will advance, quick charging will be available and range will be extended. One of the reasons electric cars will be the future is due to zero tail pipe emissions and no/little noise pollution which will clean up cities.
Tom, I don't have one because, A) I can't afford one and B) I do too many miles in a day at the moment. I will be all for one if I was close to work and could afford one, I wouldn't hesitate to get one at all.
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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Post thread about why press say range of electric cars is too low, then post that range of electric cars is too low 
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tom130691
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Registered: 13th Sep 08
Location: Daventry
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quote:
Originally posted by John
quote:
Originally posted by tom130691
theres not enough lithium in the world for every car to be replaced by lithium battery powered cars.
Where is this stat from? Don't think its even slightly correct.
cant remember a quick google proves this wrong, maybe it was not enough mines to preduce the required amount,
fuck knows was a long time ago i came across it
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antnee
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Registered: 30th Dec 07
Location: Cov Drives: Clio 197
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quote:
Originally posted by John
Post thread about why press say range of electric cars is too low, then post that range of electric cars is too low
I said the majority of the public. If you take average mileage is around 12,000 that is around 32 miles a day...
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corsadonk
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Registered: 4th Jul 09
Location: Marlborough, Wiltshire
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quote:
Originally posted by Daveskater
Just found this, it seems there are petrol stations with hydrogen points already, but as usual there's nothing even remotely near Oxford 
http://www.netinform.net/H2/H2Stations/H2Stations.aspx?Continent=EU&StationID=-1
I've never seen anybody use the one at the Honda factory in Swindon. But it's only a hydrogen filling station.
I also think it's the way forward. But it's gonna take a while.
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SXIBrad
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Registered: 7th Mar 13
Location: South Yorkshire
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I'm guessing that the figure they release for miles doesn't include having air con or heaters on? Bearing in mind we are in england and nearly always need heaters and in the summer, sometimes air con. I think the figures will be impacted a little.
If you run out of petrol on a motorway, you could get to a petrol station on foot fairly easily (might take you a while though).
If you run out of battery on a motorway, your fucked! (Without using breakdown cover)
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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Having a wireless power feed built into the roads is a plausible end result for me. There will be ubiquitous power built into the fabric of buildings and roads. That's a while away though.
All powered by fusion reactors.
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