Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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Can you explain to me the value of their actions here? bearing in mind the guy was able to walk away from the crash, then offset that by justifying the risks to their lives and others driving round the track that would need to take evasive actions due to the position they left that car and themselves running along the track
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DaveyLC
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
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Steve you are so narrow minded it actually makes my own brain hurt.. I assume you have some kind of mental condition that causes this or are you just ignorant?
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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Take that as a no then
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Ellis
Member
Registered: 11th Sep 07
Location: Aberdeenshire
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Everyone appears to pull onto the grass in the videos I have seen which is the official guidance as far as I remember.
I sure as fuck wouldn't care running down towards that car to check the condition of the occupants. Besides, the reaction of the passenger in the car directly behind the incident is spot on - he makes an immediate decision to run up the side of the track to warn others. Commendable actions from the videos I've seen.
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/emergency.php
quote:
First person on the scene
The first safety rule is don't stop unless you need to. The less chaos at the scene, the lower the chances of a follow-on crash. There are only two reasons to stop: to warn following traffic when a crash-scene isn't visible on approach, or to administer first-aid when someone is in urgent need.
If you need to stop, please do so with great care. Make sure you are past the accident and on the grass - never stop on the track itself unless totally unavoidable.
The first person to arrive should warn other traffic. Walk carefully back down the grass, making sure you are well clear of the track in case you cause another accident as people swerve to avoid you. Once in position, get behind the armco. Wave to traffic to slow it down (carrying a yellow flag or jacket is a good idea). Make sure you are well back from the accident, however: waving too vigorously too close to the crash could make matters worse by distracting drivers just when they need to be looking ahead.
Pretty much what I said in terms of not stopping after the accident.
Stick it on the inside of the corner behind the barrier, again no problem.
However. The position they left that car in was ridiculous.
I agree the people waving down the traffic was probably the right thing to do.
[Edited on 24-09-2015 by Steve]
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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In other news, check out the CPR video on that page at the bottom 
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--ToM--
Member
Registered: 23rd Nov 07
Location: Wirral
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Steve is always right the sooner everyone realises this then corsasport and possibly the world will be a better place.
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DaveyLC
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
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quote:
Originally posted by --ToM--
Steve is always right the sooner everyone realises this then corsasport and possibly the world will be a better place.
In a world where everyone is left dying on the side of the road while Steve drives on past so he can return to the safety of his panic room to make the phone call to the emergency services.
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
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I'm kinda with Steve here -
The Megane driver didn't really need help and in any case, not urgent.
The likelihood of follow-on crashes is very high indeed and the positioning of cars is entirely causal.
The official advice is that - and they know what they're doing. I'm sure they have weighed it up and decided that one guy left until professionals deal with it is preferable to far more injured - potentially more seriously when colliding with stationary cars. Which could also harm or more seriously injure the person you initially stopped to help.
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DaveyLC
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Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
The Megane driver didn't really need help and in any case, not urgent.
But he wouldn't have been able to know that if he had driven past? Would you be able to live with your self if the guy had needed CPR or died because of a severed artery and you could have saved his life but you chose to drive by?
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
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Indeed, and its preferable to be there straight away but some people who have given it more thought than us have decided prior to this incident that its safer to pass or not stop.
Definitely a great idea to all stop straight away and administer the care straight away - but this is a very fast road with terrible visibility. So the medically desirable approach is neither practical nor safe.
I do think its down to the merits of each individual incident and in this case they checked he was OK while someone else ran back to warn traffic and everyone came to a stop. But that's not the general advice - as a rule it doesn't work like that.
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DaveyLC
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
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It does if everyone is living their life with a consideration of conscious respect for each other, if we all have the attitude of 'Its not safe for ME to get involved' then everyone would simply continue on their way not giving a f**k 
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
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If you want to use living-with-yourself benchmark then how would you feel if you traded one guy with a broken wrist for an a firey death when there's an accident during the aftermath of the first one.
Contrived I know, but that's what they're saying.
Its not about not helping the first guy, its about there not being further incidents. That's got to count for something?
Very admirable of you to want to put your own life in danger to help someone else but I'd be pissed off if I ended up with a life-changing injury because the guy with the sore hand wanted help quicker than my passenger could slow traffic down.
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DaveyLC
Member
Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
User status: Offline
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Its all about calculated risk.. Personally I would have stopped to help.. I've put my self in much more risky situations than that to help someone and I'm proud of it.
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Mike
Organiser: North West and North Wales
Premium Member
Registered: 20th May 06
Location: nr. Skipton, North Yorkshire
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quote:
Originally posted by DaveyLC
quote:
Originally posted by Ian
The Megane driver didn't really need help and in any case, not urgent.
But he wouldn't have been able to know that if he had driven past? Would you be able to live with your self if the guy had needed CPR or died because of a severed artery and you could have saved his life but you chose to drive by?
Would you be able to live with yourself if you went against the advice, parked your car as he did only for it to cause a further collision that turned out to be fatal whilst it turns out the guy you're helping has just hurt his hand?
Edit: Ian beat me to it.
[Edited on 24-09-2015 by Mike]
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Ben G
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Registered: 12th Jan 07
Location: Essex
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Jesus Christ, you heartless bastards. This is proper Internet hardman stuff.
If you saw that, your instincts kick in. Your instinct is not to drive past waving, but to stop and check they're ok.
Unless you're Steve of course. But Steve has a medical condition, so it's ok.
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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Weirdos.
I'm saying if you want to stop at least leave it in a safe place!
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Dave
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Registered: 26th Feb 01
Location: Lancs
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First rule of a first aid is not to put yourself in danger tbf, although in this case one running to the crash and the other going in the opposite direction to warn others seems a fair response.
It's also easy to say what people should've done, different story with a ton of adrenaline already pumping round then the shock of seeing it right in front of you.
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben G
If you saw that, your instincts kick in.
Wrong again. I'd have read the rules prior to going out there and acted on their advice.
If you're using instinct on what is effectively a race track* then you need to consider leaving emotion at home. This secondary collision thing is a real problem and you need to live with that just as much as living with driving past.
* - yes I know, I know
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Ben G
Member
Registered: 12th Jan 07
Location: Essex
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But you're not a racing driver and that isn't a race track.
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Ben G
Member
Registered: 12th Jan 07
Location: Essex
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave
It's also easy to say what people should've done, different story with a ton of adrenaline already pumping round then the shock of seeing it right in front of you.
Exactly that.
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Ellis
Member
Registered: 11th Sep 07
Location: Aberdeenshire
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I'm going to concede that the first car on the scene pulled up in a poor position. In the same circumstances I'm certain I would've acted in a pretty similar manner but perhaps further onto the grass to reduce likelihood of a secondary collision.
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben G
But you're not a racing driver and that isn't a race track.
It has the same rules as a race track, regardless of the bespoke other sets of rules that also apply to it.
Furthermore, the basic rule of common sense that applies in any situation should apply. If you saw a crash on the road, you wouldn't stop and plonk your car in the middle of the road on a blind bend for eg
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Mike
Organiser: North West and North Wales
Premium Member
Registered: 20th May 06
Location: nr. Skipton, North Yorkshire
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Exactly, if you saw someone bounce off the central reservation, back across the lanes then roll down an embankment, would you really stop your car straddling the line between the hard shoulder and lane 1 or would you apply common sense and stop as far over on the hard shoulder as you could?
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3CorsaMeal
Member
Registered: 11th Apr 02
User status: Offline
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100% sure it was vtec kicking in caused that. Must have some sort of aftermarket kit installed. Mix that with folded down back seats and greenstuff pads and its an accident waiting to happen.
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