Andrew
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Registered: 5th May 04
Location: Skoda Octavia Estate, Ford Puma
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben G
50 quid for a forced re-gen at a dealer. Includes a diagnostic check.
To get it to cycle, you need to go on quote a long journey as it's set to cycle after a certain amount of mileage.
I actually want to have a go at fixing this issue myself, it's not really the money side.
Car runs between 2 - 3 hours a day Monday - Friday up and down the motorways. I can guarantee short runs are not the issue! Once a month will be run 6 - 8 hours to customer sites without or very little any traffic.
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Ben G
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Registered: 12th Jan 07
Location: Essex
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My dads an engineer at the company who made the car he owns and even he can't fix it himself, so you most likely have little to no hope   it's a well known issue across multiple marques, but for some reason it's not made the headlines.
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FlaFFy_91
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Sep 08
Location: Formby, Merseyside
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It's not an issue atall, dpf's work exactly how they should.
The problem is people who don't know how they work or how they should drive in a vehicle fitted with one.
Driving short distances does fill them up quicker yes, but it doesn't mean they won't regen as they should on a short run.
I can start a regen on a cold engine after changing into second gear. You just need to know how to drive them.
As for yours Andrew. You do enough motorway miles at high rpm it shouldn't be clogging up, instead of just force regening it all the time trying to clear them out. Try finding the problem that is making it soot up.
Which in this case is the 5th injector is more then likely blocked up.
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Ben G
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Registered: 12th Jan 07
Location: Essex
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Of course it's a bloody issue
Do you think dealers tell customers that they have to drive a certain amount of mileage? Or just take their money and run?
Remember everyone on this forum is an enthusiast of some sort. Do you think Martin and Mr Smith bombing up and down the motorway is interested in how dpf's work?
[Edited on 06-12-2015 by Ben G]
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FlaFFy_91
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Registered: 30th Sep 08
Location: Formby, Merseyside
User status: Offline
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Doesn't matter if there interested in how they work or not.
Doesn't make it an issue. Its fitted to every diesel car sold since the euro 5 engines in 2009. There's hundreds of thousands of people out there driving with them without a problem. Just people that don't look after there cars or don't drive them properly that think there an issue. Everyone else just gets on with it.
Our salesman ask customers what type of driving they do and advise them for or against diesels.
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
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Drive properly, if by that you mean deliberately do stuff in order that isn't actually your journey.
I have to agree in Andrew's case his driving pattern would be acceptable in normal use and it might be an underlying issue.
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FlaFFy_91
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Sep 08
Location: Formby, Merseyside
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
Drive properly, if by that you mean deliberately do stuff in order that isn't actually your journey.
I have to agree in Andrew's case his driving pattern would be acceptable in normal use and it might be an underlying issue.
There's nothing you need to do Specially ian, you can drive little or long journeys, aslong as you don't do a load of half mile journeys without anything in between it will be fine, and Aslong as you don't sit at silly low revs like most people do now because it's "economical" to be in 6th gear at 30mph.
But yes, usually it's the 5th injector being blocked, not having an oil change in a while or an EGR being stuck closed that causes them to spot up over and over again.
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Andrew
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Registered: 5th May 04
Location: Skoda Octavia Estate, Ford Puma
User status: Offline
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Oil was done 6 months ago, around 11k
Due an MOT in Jan so was going to get a service done then. Ford recommend every 2 years or 12.5k on oil changes
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
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The oil interval assumes long life oil I think?
I do think Andrew's driving patterns are OK and this isn't because the journeys are doing the damage.
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Ben G
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Registered: 12th Jan 07
Location: Essex
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by FlaFFy_91
I can start a regen on a cold engine after changing into second gear. You just need to know how to drive them.
quote:
Originally posted by FlaFFy_91
As long as you don't do a load of half mile journeys without anything in between it will be fine
Well which one is it? One would suggest that changing into second gear with a cold engine would be within the half a mile journey you've spoken about.
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FlaFFy_91
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Sep 08
Location: Formby, Merseyside
User status: Offline
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It's both Ben.
I can still start a regen within 10 seconds of driving a car, because I know exactly how to start the regen procedure. I know exactly what throttle %, what engine load, what post injection flow needs to be at, for the regen to start.
For the normal person, driving to the shops and back All the time without a decent 20 min drive will soot the dpf up.
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Ludacris Turbo
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Registered: 28th May 04
Location: High Green, Sheffield
User status: Offline
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Our vans at work which do 3 to 5 miles a day in short stop start driving need re gening all the time. New fleet is going to be petrol!
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Andrew
Member
Registered: 5th May 04
Location: Skoda Octavia Estate, Ford Puma
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
The oil interval assumes long life oil I think?
Had the service done at Ford so I assume they used the recommended oil. Chances are, they never even changed it. I don't recall checking if the oil was a nice golden colour when i collected the car.
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--ToM--
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Registered: 23rd Nov 07
Location: Wirral
User status: Offline
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Won't be gold anyway on a diesel, fresh new oil will be black as fuck after the first start up
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ShEp
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Registered: 9th Aug 05
Location: Dingwall, Highland
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Andrew
quote:
Originally posted by Ian
The oil interval assumes long life oil I think?
Had the service done at Ford so I assume they used the recommended oil. Chances are, they never even changed it. I don't recall checking if the oil was a nice golden colour when i collected the car.
Wtf!?! How on earth would you think a Ford main dealer wouldn't have changed your oil during a service? You speak utter shite.
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Andrew
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Registered: 5th May 04
Location: Skoda Octavia Estate, Ford Puma
User status: Offline
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A guy who i work with told me a little story about main dealers. He came into IT after working in the car industry for 20 years.
This guy had worked his way up to management of a Mercedes workshops in Stockport whereby the finance manager advised to increase profits he needed to advise customers things such as brake pads and discs needed changing. Once the cars were in for this to be carried out the work was never done.
This kind of ties up with some of the things i was advised needed to be done when younger. Having very little experience.
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FlaFFy_91
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Sep 08
Location: Formby, Merseyside
User status: Offline
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That doesn't happen, everyone goes on about main dealers like they are out to scam you.
When it comes down to oil though. Most dealerships have two types of oil. 5w30 dpf oil and 10w40 pump oil.
So it should of had the correct oil put in it.
Is the 5th injector accessible? If so, unbolt it and clean it up. It sounds like it's not regening properly hence it keeps coming back.
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pow
Premium Member
Registered: 11th Sep 06
Location: Hazlemere, Buckinghamshire
User status: Offline
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Every dealer I know is like it. Booked our school Zafira in to have the heater recall done on it. Needs a new flexijoint, new rear brakes and tyres, £750 please. Sailed through an MOT with no issues two week later at a local reputable garage.
My sisters Twingo went in to have a new gear selector as it wouldn't go into reverse under warranty. It needs ARB bushes and front brakes sir. Jacked it up, took the wheel off, front brakes are fine, loads of life left in them, ARB bushes are solid as. It's like they have an upsell of the month because they ordered too many ARB bushes and brake pads.
[Edited on 11-12-2015 by pow]
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FlaFFy_91
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Sep 08
Location: Formby, Merseyside
User status: Offline
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We don't have any quotas to fill. Or anything atall. We just do work. Might just be the lads in your local gaff mate wanting to get bonus but it's not how we work.
I was specifically told if I rip people off ill loose my job.
As for the pads and things like that, ARB bushes can be advised when there cracking or perished atal. Also they could have play in them with all 4 wheels on the ground as they might of been doing it on a 4 poster.
And the brake pads we have to advise when they get to about 50% worn, so about 3-4mm left on them. We do that as it's written into our saftey and insurance things. Blah blah blah.
Basically not all dealers are out to get you. Half the stuff I advise in work. I wouldn't of advised at my last job. But I've got to.
Doesn't mean I'm trying to rip you off. It means we're covering our arses from being sued.
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
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The being sued thing is a bit of a myth, you have a duty of care and are not immune from contributory negligence but to suggest you'd be in trouble if you let someone's car out and didn't advise with brake pads lower than 3mm is pushing it a bit.
Had a Fiesta mk5 in for work the other day, had been in to Ford for something and they wanted over a grand off him for all sorts of bollocks. Its like that part of the industry doesn't know the others exist.
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pow
Premium Member
Registered: 11th Sep 06
Location: Hazlemere, Buckinghamshire
User status: Offline
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The problem is it's not advised - I'm not suggested you are ripping people off Flaffy - it's the pure scaremongering. Fine, advise me that the brakes are 50% worn, don't tell me they NEED replacing!
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FlaFFy_91
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Sep 08
Location: Formby, Merseyside
User status: Offline
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I'd agree with you there pow, we advise on things like that we don't tell people they need replacing.
Some dealers will try it on to make a few quid I'll admit that.and I used to think they were all rip off shops aswell. But since I started working in one and found out how we have to work and everything, I understand it a lot more. And there's quite a lot out there that are good ones.
Ian, ok so I was over exaggerating a fair bit there. But you get where I'm coming from?
As above. There are places that try do you over. There always will be. I bet there's just as many back street garages that do it too
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ShEp
Member
Registered: 9th Aug 05
Location: Dingwall, Highland
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by pow
The problem is it's not advised - I'm not suggested you are ripping people off Flaffy - it's the pure scaremongering. Fine, advise me that the brakes are 50% worn, don't tell me they NEED replacing!
This.
I deal with this all the time at work, I run a fast fit garage, and the amount of people/customers I gain from the likes of Kwik-fit scaremongering is unreal.
They tell people they need 4 tyres, a set of brakes, wheel alignment and shock absorbers, I have one of my fitters have a look, to find out all they really need is 2 tyres at a push, as they're on 3mm, I don't ever tell customers they NEED anything, I give them the information to make an informed decision.
If they have tyres on 3mm, I advise the legal limit is 1.6mm, at this time of year I would recommend a change of tyres but it's not NEEDED yet, also the wheel alignment is checked for free, and only payable if it needs adjusted.
We have noticed a large surge in business since I have taken over here and adopted this policy, people can come in here knowing that there is no pressure, even if the brakes are knackered, who has spare money to do them at this time of year? I'll just advise and they can make their own mind up.
Unfortunately with the likes of Kwik-fit doing what they do, fast-fit garages will probably always have a bad name, a lot of people want to think the worst, but I want to change that in my place, so far it seems to be working 
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ShEp
Member
Registered: 9th Aug 05
Location: Dingwall, Highland
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Andrew
A guy who i work with told me a little story about main dealers. He came into IT after working in the car industry for 20 years.
This guy had worked his way up to management of a Mercedes workshops in Stockport whereby the finance manager advised to increase profits he needed to advise customers things such as brake pads and discs needed changing. Once the cars were in for this to be carried out the work was never done.
This kind of ties up with some of the things i was advised needed to be done when younger. Having very little experience.
Tbh I don't believe you, or I don't believe the guy you worked with, NO and I mean NO garage would get away with that, there is stock/job card, proof of purchase implications which cannot be doctored,
I fear there probably are some back street garages out there doing this type of thing but not main dealers.
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Andrew
Member
Registered: 5th May 04
Location: Skoda Octavia Estate, Ford Puma
User status: Offline
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Update:
I forced a regen, jumped on the motorway, before i got out of second gear at 3000rpm the warning light came on again. Switch off the ignition and back on it works fine again.
I've put the car in at the main dealers for it's free MOT test. Passed with flying colours apparently One of the tyres is down to 3mm which i knew about but that is the only thing they can pick up on.
Happy i've got an MOT and no money to pay out but this error is getting on my tits. Hoping a change of oil will resolve the issue.
It's cost me nothing this car since i've had it, think i'm planning on running it another year before getting a Freelander.
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