Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
like saying I called him a black cunt because he called me a scouse.
Was going to say scouse isn't a race but technically black isn't either.
But yeah, you have highlighted the hypocrisy across the whole issue, I would be more offended being called a scouse cunt than a white cunt because at least the scouse race has some features to mock - a reputation for stealing, silly voices, tracksuits. White has no such connotations and wouldn't offend me in the slightest.
And yet one is a really serious issue that everyone must think of the children, and the other would go completely unnoticed. Not clear who decided that like.
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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White cunt generally doesnt have a history of it being used in a derogatory manner behind it and generally isnt conceived as being offensive, same as scot isnt offensive but paki is.
Are you suggesting if i called someone on here a black cunt 7 times, that would hold less or equal water as me calling someone a scouse cunt on here?
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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My problem with racism is the fact it's not equally applied, so in answer to the question I should treat each of those things equally.
However convention dictates I don't and I'm quite sure there would be complete uproar if I didn't do anything about the former but the latter wouldn't even be noticed.
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Steve
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I agree its not equal and its silly that a paki can not be used to simply describe someone thats from pakistan, but thats the way it is
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Dr Pepper
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Registered: 21st Sep 02
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After seeing what was found in this report ...and what Suarez himself admitted to a few things stand out.
1- The FA were absolutley bang in in charging him and finding him guillty of the least serious offence he was up for
2- Evra was correct in complaining
3- 8 games is very lenient - and Liverpool should also fine him.
4- Liverpool were unbelievably stupid in the support they gave him when as far as I can see he is guilty of the offence by his own admission and they will not be able to find any grounds to appeal on.
The revalation that 'negrito' wasnt used, and it wasnt friendly is the most unbelievable thing. He used the word negro seven times, including"I dont speak to blacks", and "ok blackie, blackie, blackie"
Why are liverpool wearing t shirts of someone who has done that- whatever he meant by it its still a moronic thing to say to a bllack footballer in an attempt to wind him up. If you did that in the work place you would be sacked.
He should have come out straight away, apologised for what he said, explained cultural differences and taken a fine and a suspension from his own club.
The report is far more damning than I personally thought it would be - and im talking about what Suarez admitted to - not other peoples testimony of the event. There is a good case for him to be banned for much longer than 8 games, or for the club to take action themselves and sack him
[Edited on 02-01-2012 by Dr Pepper]
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Cavey
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Registered: 11th Nov 02
Location: Derby
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Any opinion on what Evra has said Dr. P?
For the record, I agree with you on the above.
He can claim cultural differences all he likes, but he knew exactly what he was doing. The pointing at skin, calling him blackie etc...
However I still think Evra should of manned the fuck up and just carried on, but that's my view on racism as a white male who doesn't give a toss about it all
[Edited on 02-01-2012 by Cavey]
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Dr Pepper
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quote:
Originally posted by Cavey
Any opinion on what Evra has said Dr. P?
He didnt racially abuse suarez, his testimony is bang on and backed up by all the other evidence. There has not been a complaint made againt Evra
He was racially abused by Suarez - he has a right to complain......personally I think evra is a whinger, and has a bad attitude himself. Thats a very good reason not to persistently throw racial taunts at him during a game - he will make a complaint.
Just shows the stupidity of Suarez again imo
[Edited on 02-01-2012 by Dr Pepper]
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Cavey
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Location: Derby
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So, Evra is allowed to say whatever he wants to Suarez, insulting his family and using where he was born "sudamericano" in a derogatory manner, as long as it doesn't mention anything about his skin colour?
Fair enough
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Dr Pepper
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quote:
Originally posted by Cavey
So, Evra is allowed to say whatever he wants to Suarez, insulting his family and using where he was born "sudamericano" in a derogatory manner, as long as it doesn't mention anything about his skin colour?
Fair enough
The report does not conclude that is what Evra did. There is nothing to prove Evra said anything abusive to Suarez - and that is backed up by all of the testimony given by both teams.
The sudemericano claim has been rubbished by Suarez own evidence. At first suarez claimed that himself and evra had a conversation in spanish where evera used the 'sudemericano' insult.
During the inquest suarez was forced to admit that the conversation was in English, not Spanish. And it is very questionable as to whether Evra used the word at all.
Of course Evra can not just abuse someone and get away with it --- but Suarez doesnt actually claim that is what happened - there is no complaint that has ever been made against evras part in this by Liverpool or Suarez.
Suarez seemed to be brushing the whole thing off as a jokey conversation where they were winding each other up
The facts are
1- The converation suarez claimed to happen in spanish was actually in English
2- The phrase "negrito" was not used - 'negro' was used 7 times
3- Kuyt and Commolis evidence backs up Evras story - and confirms that Suarez said "I dont speak to blacks", "because you are black" and "ok blackie, blackie. blackie"
4- Kuyt and comolli confirmed that initially when suarez was asked why he had kicked evra, he repllied "becuase you are black"
He has got off very lightly with 8 games
[Edited on 02-01-2012 by Dr Pepper]
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Cavey
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Haven't read the report, was paraphrasing what Ian had said. I assume he'd at least skimmed through it.
"Suarez seemed to be brushing the whole thing off as a jokey conversation where they were winding each other up" - Which on a football pitch is the way it should be, Evra has just complained because Suarez was winning, and he was being a whiny bitch about it all
Suarez shouldn't have resorted to taking it to skin colour, and I agree, as he's been found guilty, it probably is a light sentence, not sure if there's a precedent set anywhere with how long it "should be"?
Not really arguing with anything you've stated there tbh.
As I said above, I wouldn't be affected by anything people called me, or if I was, I would make sure I crippled him in the next tackle I put in on him
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Dr Pepper
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Registered: 21st Sep 02
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quote:
Originally posted by Cavey
As I said above, I wouldn't be affected by anything people called me, or if I was, I would make sure I crippled him in the next tackle I put in on him
That would be my approach and attitude as well.
But I certainly would racially abuse any player --especially Evra.
I wouldnt dream of saying any of the things he has admitted to in my workplace, or while playing sports .... because at the very least I would expect to be punched, sacked or be charged.
He did a brainless thing im afraid - and Evra is not to blame here .... although imo he does have a terrible attitude as well.
[Edited on 02-01-2012 by Dr Pepper]
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Nath
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: MK
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Even Phil Thompson reckons Liverpool should let it go and move on.
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Ben J
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Registered: 31st Jan 05
Location: Cheshire
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Fair play for Kuyt for tellin truth and not lying to protect his collegue.
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Nath
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: MK
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben J
Fair play for Kuyt for tellin truth and not lying to protect his collegue.
Agreed.
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Tom
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: Wirral, Merseyside
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Pepper
After seeing what was found in this report ...and what Suarez himself admitted to a few things stand out.
1- The FA were absolutley bang in in charging him and finding him guillty of the least serious offence he was up for
2- Evra was correct in complaining
3- 8 games is very lenient - and Liverpool should also fine him.
4- Liverpool were unbelievably stupid in the support they gave him when as far as I can see he is guilty of the offence by his own admission and they will not be able to find any grounds to appeal on.
The revalation that 'negrito' wasnt used, and it wasnt friendly is the most unbelievable thing. He used the word negro seven times, including"I dont speak to blacks", and "ok blackie, blackie, blackie"
Why are liverpool wearing t shirts of someone who has done that- whatever he meant by it its still a moronic thing to say to a bllack footballer in an attempt to wind him up. If you did that in the work place you would be sacked.
He should have come out straight away, apologised for what he said, explained cultural differences and taken a fine and a suspension from his own club.
The report is far more damning than I personally thought it would be - and im talking about what Suarez admitted to - not other peoples testimony of the event. There is a good case for him to be banned for much longer than 8 games, or for the club to take action themselves and sack him
[Edited on 02-01-2012 by Dr Pepper]
I genuinely don't believe you have read the full report. You have skimmed someone else's summarised and probably biased view and not even referenced any of the findings in your continued attempt to lay the blame at one players door. I've seen plenty of reason for us to appeal, and I disagree with every single point you've made 
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Dr Pepper
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Registered: 21st Sep 02
Location: oxford Drives Renault Clio RS200
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From Kuyts testimony....
"why did you kick him?"
"because he is black" - Suarez
How exactly are you defending that?
[Edited on 03-01-2012 by Dr Pepper]
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Robbo
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Registered: 6th Aug 02
Location: London
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quote:
Originally posted by mwg
5. The FA's case, in short, was as follows. In the goalmouth, Mr Evra and Mr Suarez spoke to
each other in Spanish. Mr Evra asked Mr Suarez why he had kicked him, referring to the
foul five minutes previously. Mr Suarez replied "Porque tu eres negro", meaning "Because
you are black". Mr Evra then said to Mr Suarez “say it to me again, I’m going to punch
you”. Mr Suarez replied "No hablo con los negros", meaning "I don't speak to blacks". Mr
Evra continued by saying that he now thought he was going to punch Mr Suarez. Mr
Suarez replied "Dale, negro, negro, negro", which meant "okay, blackie, blackie, blackie".
As Mr Suarez said this, he reached out to touch Mr Evra's arm, gesturing at his skin. Mr
Kuyt then intervened. When the referee blew his whistle and called the players over to
him shortly after the exchanges in the goalmouth, Mr Evra said to the referee "ref, ref, he
just called me a fucking black".
That's what he has been found guilty of.
[Edited on 31-12-2011 by mwg]
IF that is true, then tbh he shoul;d count himself very lucky that he has only got an 8 game ban and not a lifetime ban tbh  that is unbelievable, and changesit from him saying soemthign racist to being an actual racist
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Dr Pepper
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He is also lucky as it appears he has sort to misguide the enquiry by claiming Kuyt and Comolli misheard him due to lack of understanding when he spoke to them in spanish and dutch after the game .... Kuyt and Comolli were very clear that they did not misinterpret what he said
"Mr Kuyt also dealt in his witness statement with the discrepancy between what he told the FA on 2 November that he had understood Mr Suarez had said and what Mr Suarez claimed he told Mr Kuyt after the game. Mr Kuyt said:
"I am aware that Luis Suarez will state in evidence that what he actually said in response to the remark from Patrice Evra was (translated into English) "Why, black?" or "Why, negro?" and I am perfectly happy to accept that this is what he said. I may have misunderstood what he was saying or perhaps sought to interpret what he was saying as what I thought Luis Suarez might have said when, in fact, it was not what he said."
The position, therefore, is as follows. Mr Suarez spoke in Spanish to Mr Comolli soon after the game about this serious allegation. Mr Suarez also spoke in Dutch to Mr Kuyt. Both Mr Comolli and Mr Kuyt understood Mr Suarez to have told them that when he spoke to Mr Evra he said words which translate into English as, "Because you are black". According to Mr Suarez, Mr Comolli misheard what Mr Suarez said in Spanish, and Mr Kuyt misheard what Mr Suarez said in Dutch."
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mwg
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Registered: 19th Feb 04
Location: South Lakes
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So 2 people misheard him in 2 different languages? Liars 
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Nath
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: MK
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Amazing that Liverpool fans can even begin to defend him.
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
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i love it when matty g gets fired up. Can really pictured his ginger hot headedness shining through, and his pubes standing on end at the same time
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Robbo
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Registered: 6th Aug 02
Location: London
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Begs the question why wasnt he speaking in FUCKING ENGLISH, stupid sudamericano! He's been here long enough to have learnt the language by now, esp if he managed to learn Dutch in his few years at Ajax 
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Tom
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: Wirral, Merseyside
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I could post reams on this subject, but as we discovered some time ago people aren't willing or able to understand the double standards that I take issue with. It's not something that is likely to be resolved either, I'd prefer to not waste anymore time trying I hope the appeal will be heard quickly, and that the people working on it don't bow to the bullshit FA disciplinary 'process'. I honestly think though that this will run and run and it's pointless speculating further until it's done so.
[Edited on 03-01-2012 by Tom]
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Dr Pepper
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Registered: 21st Sep 02
Location: oxford Drives Renault Clio RS200
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quote:
Originally posted by Tom
I could post reams on this subject, but as we discovered some time ago people aren't willing or able to understand the double standards that I take issue with. It's not something that is likely to be resolved either, I'd prefer to not waste anymore time trying I hope the appeal will be heard quickly, and that the people working on it don't bow to the bullshit FA disciplinary 'process'. I honestly think though that this will run and run and it's pointless speculating further until it's done so.
[Edited on 03-01-2012 by Tom]
appeal? what appeal ...there isnt one yet.
If there is one I very much hope the club and the player are punshed even harder for wasting everyones time.
Liverpool and many of their fans have lost all sense of reality over this ...you talk of double standards - we are simply looking at what Evra alleged happened, and then looking at the testimony of suarez, kuyt and comolli and coming to the obvious conclusion that he has got away lightly with 8 games due to what he said to Evra ...It really doesnt matter if he is or isnt racist, or what provoked him - he is guilty of what he has been charged with - beyond any reasonable doubt
lol - at you being able to post reams on the subject ...there is already reams published about this .... its the 100 page report with the testimony of everyone there, and all the video evidence available that finds he is pretty clearly guilty of the offence he was charged with ... it doesnt really matter what nonsense of the Liverpool forums you can post in his defence im afraid
[Edited on 03-01-2012 by Dr Pepper]
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chrisritch
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Registered: 2nd Sep 08
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I am certain Dr Pepper is just a troll tbh
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