MarkM
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Registered: 11th Apr 01
Location: Liverpool
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I think my post sums it up
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Novaneil
Member
Registered: 26th Oct 06
Location: Leamington Spa
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quote:
Originally posted by Butler
The thread isnt about economics its about motorsport!
Sorry got side tracked! Just can't stand Diesels! Hence why I LPG'd my car for cheap motoring instead of getting one...lol
No Diesel's will not take over motorsport.... They are now purely in it for a marketing exercise IMO, to boost the image and make the car companies Diesel model's more attractable to the punters... so they have "Motorsport background" etc...
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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couldnt agree more TBh, they make more on diesel cars
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MarkM
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Registered: 11th Apr 01
Location: Liverpool
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This is true..the diesels costs more...on average...
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dhdev
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Registered: 22nd Dec 05
Location: Midlands
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I realise that Motorsport isn't just about the noise etc, but motorsport needs to provide a spectacle in order to have spectators, without spectators there is no sponsorship, no sponsorship = no money. Part of the spectacle (imo) is the sights and sounds of the petrol engines. I certainly wouldn't get up at 4am to go and stand in a forest in Wales to watch some diseasels go past 
For all the off topic "but they're more economical" "a 535 is a great car" etc. I AGREE. As road cars diseasels are ace, economical and torquey 
But the 535d being as quick as an M5, don't make me laugh 
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dhdev
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Registered: 22nd Dec 05
Location: Midlands
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quote:
Originally posted by mk4_astra
what ever car you have, lets see it take on the new 535d m sport and i can assure you would soon stop slating diesels. then its only a remap away from e60 m5 power i realy dont know how you can argue with that
535d 0-60 6.5secs, 0-100mph 15.1secs (sport-auto test)
Nova 0-60 5.3secs, 0-100mph 13.8secs.
Mine was made to go fast round a circuit so would be even more clear cut on a track 
I think you'll find that a DMS remapped 535d will put out around 344bhp, which isn't even in the same ball park as a standard M5 (500bhp) 
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Superlite Ltd.
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Registered: 9th Jan 07
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Seat ibiza mk2 1.9TDI
with a small amount of tuning it will beat a corsa GSI 
Diesels are mostly shit, but some are fast. Remember, they are full of torque and make their max power much sooner in the revs than petrols.
p.s. who said the black smoke is from excess diesel being burnt? idiot 
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Superlite Ltd.
and make their max power much sooner in the revs than petrols.
hence a boring drive
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Superlite Ltd.
Member
Registered: 9th Jan 07
User status: Offline
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From club TDI
"It has been said that "people buy horsepower, but drive torque". This statement completely describes why the TDI engine is so easy to live with during day-to-day driving, despite the seemingly low horsepower rating!
A typical multivalve 2-litre gasoline engine may have its maximum horsepower (perhaps 120 or so) at 5500 to 6000 rpm, and its maximum torque (perhaps 120 lb-ft or so) between 3500 and 4000 rpm, and is probably geared to run about 2700 rpm at 100 km/h. In top gear at highway speed, the engine is below its peak torque, and probably makes around 51 hp at that speed. A downshift is usually needed to make a quick pass, or to get up a steep hill. If the car has an automatic transmission, the torque converter will probably unlock going up moderate hills, in order to get the engine closer to its peak torque.
With the TDI engine, maximum horsepower (90) is available at 3750 to 4000 rpm, and maximum torque (155 lb-ft) is available at just 1900 rpm. The engine runs 2100 rpm at 100 km/h and makes about 62 horsepower at that speed. Hey, that's more than the gas engine ... by quite a bit, too! Thus, no downshift is required to make a pass or to climb virtually any highway grade. And if the car has an automatic, it won't unlock the torque converter, because peak torque is right there already."
I prefer petrol engines, but some disels are right sleepers. Seat ibiza mk4 TDI for example....fast diesel 
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Butler
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Registered: 2nd Jun 05
Location: London
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What has that got to do with motorsport!?
I agree with dhdev, motorsport still has the exciting factor which diesel will furtherly take away. Its like everything that changes through motorsport, like id rather see a group b rally car in action that a group a, but its still good fun.
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STEvieXE
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Registered: 21st Jan 03
Location: Ballymena N.I.
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Rachel H
I would like diesels if they could get rid of the black smoke.
my 306 has 170k on it (turned that today) and does NOT smoke. ever. it is also screwed slightly. i think its the only screwed 306 i have saw that doesnt soot
plus 150bhp boras remapped to 200bhp. fast fast car
[Edited on 09-02-2007 by STEvieXE]
[Edited on 09-02-2007 by STEvieXE]
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Twiggy
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Registered: 15th Oct 04
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60mpg is the way forward if i wanted performance i would get another valver!!
i am thinking of gettting golf gtdi next well untill petrol prices drop!
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Rob H
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Registered: 28th Oct 00
Location: Staffordshire Drives: Astra SRi
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
they make more on diesel cars
How do you work that out exactly?
Diesels retail at a higher price (usually) because diesels cost more to make (usually double an equivalent petrol engine).
Try doing some research on the internals of a diesel engine before making stupid comments about costs of one .
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob H
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
they make more on diesel cars
How do you work that out exactly?
Diesels retail at a higher price (usually) because diesels cost more to make (usually double an equivalent petrol engine).
Try doing some research on the internals of a diesel engine before making stupid comments about costs of one .
yes to a certain extent, but diesels are priced more in relation to the price and cost of a petrol car because they are more desirable, so yes they do make more on diesel cars then petrol cars
[Edited on 11-02-2007 by Steve]
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Rob H
Member
Registered: 28th Oct 00
Location: Staffordshire Drives: Astra SRi
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
yes to a certain extent, but diesels are priced more in relation to the price and cost of a petrol car because they are more desirable, so yes they do make more on diesel cars then petrol cars
I'm not going to try and argue my point, as I don't have the unit prices of how much it costs to make each engine, I'm just going off the FACTS i've been given in my engine design module, and I don't think an engine is cheap to prodcue, mass production or not, hence if it costs double for a diesel engine, the majority of the extra you pay is towards the costs envolved in producing it, admittedly though with a small premium slapped on because of the added benifits.
Besides, the future of the combustion engine utilises both fuels. HCCi is where it's at .
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