R16AN H
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Registered: 26th Jun 05
Location: Coventry
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this has been bugging me all day,twice in utd's last 2 european games they have been subjected to what can only be described as barbaric,and typically foreign,police brutality.for there chief of police to come out and say they did nothing wrong is beond belief.but,as with lille,utd were and will be made out to be the ones in the wrong.from what i can gather there were a small group(15 to 20) utd fans who,after being pelted with bottles,flag poles etc,decided they had had enough,which just happened to coincide with scholes getting sent off, which made the two sets off "fans" clash.like already has been mentioned,why were the police in with the united fans?why not put them with the scummy,itallian twats,and prevent the trouble before it actually starts.this country has worked wonders in reducing the amount of football violence that actually happens now,obviously you still get the occasional scuffle,but not to the degree of last night.this is a personal opinion,but i think romas fans should be banned from travelling to old trafford,as to be honest i cant see any roma fans being welcome after what they did.
uefa have got to step in before we have another disaster,ideally banning roma fans attending any european games,as they cant seem to behave.
i hope any utd fan that did get caught up fully recovers from there terrible ordeal.
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gianluigi
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Registered: 9th Mar 05
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk
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quote:
Originally posted by Rachel H
Italian Football Federation president Giancarlo Abete praised the action of police.
"We owe gratitude to our law enforcers and I don't believe those who try to make games safe can be crucified in this manner," he said.
Fcuking disgusting, this bloke should never be allowed to step foot in this country and if he does throw him off the White Cliffs.
I am enraged.
exactly as i thought.
read this...
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.gazzetta.it/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dgazzetta%2Bdello%2Bsport%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX
a bit is saying in there that the english media are unfairly showing the united fans as the victims in this situation, when its not the case.
everyone is as bad as eachother.
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topshot_2k
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even if utd were partly to blame why were NO riot police in with the italians kicking the shit out of them, corruption thats why.
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topshot_2k
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their all thesame, big and mighty at home but never come here and act the big bollocks. fucking greasy cunts
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gianluigi
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quote:
Originally posted by topshot_2k
their all thesame, big and mighty at home but never come here and act the big bollocks. fucking greasy cunts
no need for the last bit now is there?
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topshot_2k
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maybe not but it pisses me off that english fans are treated like shit and blamed even when as last night showed its not them thats the problem.
IF it was me in charge i would fine Roma, and then kick them from the CL
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gianluigi
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read the artical in the gazzetta. and no there is no need to resort to racial slurs
[Edited on 05-04-2007 by gianluigi]
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topshot_2k
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no excuse for rioting when there are kids with parents in there, i also saw no police hitting the roma supporters??
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mav
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Registered: 19th Jun 01
Location: Scotland
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quote:
Originally posted by gianluigi
read the artical in the gazzetta. and no there is no need to resort to racial slurs
I agree with Luigi on this part, yeah argue about it etc and chat but don't get racial...
cheers
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Danny P
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Registered: 20th Nov 02
Location: Cleckheaton, West Yorkshire
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My views are that the Italian Old Bill are cunts, end off. No need what so ever to go steaming in like that. Yes the UTD fans shouldnt have responded they way they did, but were there any Police on the Roma side of the fence to stop them charging at it? No, was there fuck, there allowed to just do what they want  The camera's show English fans getting beaten, and the whole world pressumes it was them that started it 
Fucking disgusting how they were beating people who were on the floor, in one clip i've seen a copper picks one of the fans up who is lying clearly injured on the floor, and then beats him round the leg a few times with a batton If that were some normal guy in the street he'd be going down for assault!
Seems foreign Police pick on the English clubs because were an easy target, we've caused trouble in the past and so were forever going to be the bad boys. Italian FA are too scared to do anything about it, so they turn a blind eye to it all last night, and pass the blame over to us
Cunts
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mav
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Location: Scotland
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Yep agree with all of that Danny...IT'S now time for UEFA to step in and do something..Maybe if all Italian clubs were banned from Europe for a few seasons the police / fans and clubs might take notice...Probably not as The home fans like to riot with ther police all on their own anyway...
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Jules
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At the end of the day each respective countrys media will manipulate the footage to give the impression that the other countrys fans were at fault - do you reckon on the Italian equivilent of Corsasport there are a load of Italian youths saying the same as what we're saying? No, because they will of seen different footage, they will of read different reports in the media and they would of heard only their side of the story - much like we have in the UK but in reverse.
My opinion is that the Roma fans taunted the Man Utd fans after going 1-0 up - this happens at every football ground in every country every week!
Yes the roma fans were at the perspex seperators, punching the screens and being agressive in their taunting, but the Man Utd fans ran across the terraces, through a section which had been left empty to try and avoid this kind of thing so they could also go and punch the perspex and scream and shout at each other (almost) face to face.
Now, the Italian police had to step in to get the Man Utd fans back to where they should of been, and this is where it all went wrong, the police waded in heavy handed in the first instant, yes they had to be physical but they didn't have to be that agressive, it was ott and was totally uncalled for and action should be taken against the Italian police.
I can't see how anyone can say "all Italian clubs should be thrown out of europe..." when it was their police force that have done this, not the fans (of either team), but the goverment run police force.
The Man Utd fans were naive in letting the Roma fans taunts get to them, and the Roma fans were wrong for doing it in the first place - but if Man Utd had of scored first then it would of been the same in reverse - the Man Utd fans would of taunted the Roma ones and anyone who says otherwise is just plain stupid.
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Danny P
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Location: Cleckheaton, West Yorkshire
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quote:
Originally posted by Jules
The Man Utd fans were naive in letting the Roma fans taunts get to them, and the Roma fans were wrong for doing it in the first place - but if Man Utd had of scored first then it would of been the same in reverse - the Man Utd fans would of taunted the Roma ones and anyone who says otherwise is just plain stupid.
Hows about you come to Huddersfield on Monday, and when we score I'll run over and throw bottle of piss at you, see how you react Im sure you'd be happy to stand there and just think "ah well, we've just conceeded" Would you fuck, you'd be well pissed off, especially if you've had a few beers etc.
If Man Utd had have scored first then fair enough, they may have have taunted the Roma fans, although I doubt they would have charged through a Police line and started throwing stuff across like the Roma fans did when they scored the first goal, have you ever seen this happen in England when UTD have scored?? No, didn't think so.
End of day, if Roma fans hadn't have started throwing stuff or charging towards the fence, then the UTD fans wouldn't have reacted, and nothing would have happened. If there had been a few lines of riot Police on the Roma side of the screen would they have been so happy to carry on like they did? I doubt it, as they would have got a kicking, they knew what they were doing winding the UTD fans up, as they knew how the Police would react.
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Jules
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Registered: 26th Nov 04
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Bottles of piss? you know this how?
So no Man utd fan threw anything into the Roma fans?
If you say "no" then you're lying.
And no, I've not seen things like that happen in this country in recent time - why? Because the way our games are policed are vastly better than the Italian games.
You can't compare one countrys culture to another and say "well it doesn't happen here so it shouldn't happen elsewhere" as this world simpy doesn't work like that.
I remember a few years back when one of the Turkish clubs (may of been Galatasary) used to sacrifice a live lamb/sheep on the pitch before the start of a season - acceptable there but not here, does it make it wrong? In your eyes (and mine) - yes, in theirs - no.
You can't judges situations like this by the standards we expect in this country.
Oh and I'd happily come to Huddersfield on Monday, and IF you score I know I'll be perfectly safe - why? Because this isn't Italy and we don't generally throw things at people, you even stated that in your post!
I'm afraid you've not really thought your arguement through in my opinion.
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mav
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Registered: 19th Jun 01
Location: Scotland
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I can't see how anyone can say "all Italian clubs should be thrown out of europe..." when it was their police force that have done this, not the fans (of either team), but the goverment run police force.
wrong Jules..
WHY shouldn't they be banned?
A man u fan was stabbed( by so called roma fans) when his taxi dropped him off at the wrong end of the ground...
But yeah it's not the roma fans fault?
the roma fans left their area and charged(about 10 rows) at the man u fans, as did the man u fans when faced with this...Riot police beat hell out of the man u fans but nothing happened to roma fans who done exactly the same thing?
[Edited on 05-04-2007 by mav]
[Edited on 05-04-2007 by mav]
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mav
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on the news there..
Over the last 5-6 years there has been over 20 english fans stabbed by Roma fans alone... mainly liverpool fans..
still think they shouldn't get flung out of europe???
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Jules
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For things that have happened 5-6 years ago? No of course I don't - they should of been dealt with back then.
If we're talking about last nights events then yes I do think they should be thrown out, along with Man Utd as both were as bad as each other.
imo
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Hammer
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Registered: 11th Feb 04
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Jules, serious question here are you sticking up for Italian football because you support Inter Milan for some unknown reason or is it because you genuinely believe that their behaviour should be tolerated?
At this moment in time and in my opinion you should ban them indefinitely until their domestic game is sorted, 1 fan dying is too many. Football is a sport not life or death no matter how much any 1 man supports their club.
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Jules
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Registered: 26th Nov 04
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I'm not letting my support of Inter Mailan sway my opinion, I support Ipswich Town over Inter anyway.
As I have stated, i will say my opinion, i won't dilute it or sugar coat it to "fit in" with other people on here, i have my opinion and I'm just as entitled to it as anyone else.
Yes one fan dying it one too many, but remember that a police officer was killed a few weeks back in Italy so they aren't going to take any chances when it comes to football violence - but once again - this still does not excuse the Italian police's actions last night - nothing does, they were out of order and I've said that all along.
I just don't believe you can say "Throw Roma out" without having to say "Throw Man Utd out" solely based on their fans behaviour last night.
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mav
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Jules it's not 5-6 years ago..
it's over the last 5-6 years.....every time an English team plays there...Liverpool and middlesbrough fans..Should have remembered the stats as they are shocking..
a man u fan was stabbed the other night too... So in my view chuck them out on this fact and the fact over 20 been stabbed over the last 5-6 years.
But you are right Jules mate everybody is entitled to their opinion just yours is wrong   
[Edited on 06-04-2007 by mav]
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Danny P
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Registered: 20th Nov 02
Location: Cleckheaton, West Yorkshire
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quote:
Originally posted by Jules
Bottles of piss? you know this how?
So no Man utd fan threw anything into the Roma fans?
If you say "no" then you're lying.
And no, I've not seen things like that happen in this country in recent time - why? Because the way our games are policed are vastly better than the Italian games.
You can't compare one countrys culture to another and say "well it doesn't happen here so it shouldn't happen elsewhere" as this world simpy doesn't work like that.
I remember a few years back when one of the Turkish clubs (may of been Galatasary) used to sacrifice a live lamb/sheep on the pitch before the start of a season - acceptable there but not here, does it make it wrong? In your eyes (and mine) - yes, in theirs - no.
You can't judges situations like this by the standards we expect in this country.
Oh and I'd happily come to Huddersfield on Monday, and IF you score I know I'll be perfectly safe - why? Because this isn't Italy and we don't generally throw things at people, you even stated that in your post!
I'm afraid you've not really thought your arguement through in my opinion.
My argument? All I was saying is that the UTD fans reacted when they provoked by the Roma fans, then Italian OB got all excited and started twating people with batons  Thats what happend, Fact.
I know they were bottle of piss as I got a text of mate who was there telling me he'd just been hit by one, and I cant see why he would he just make it up randomly.
You also state in your post about culture. Sacrificing a lamb before a game might be culture, I cant see how you can call fans throwing bottles at other fans culture, or are you saying that because its Italian "culture" then its alright?
The point I was making about a bottle being thrown at Huddersfield was more to illustrate the point about reactions. From what you were saying it sounded to me like you were saying the UTD fans shouldn't have reacted. Point i was trying to make was that if someone throws a bottle at you, you'd find it very hard to just stand there and do nothing.
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Jules
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Registered: 26th Nov 04
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk Status: Happy
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quote:
Originally posted by mav
Jules it's not 5-6 years ago..
it's over the last 5-6 years.....every time an English team plays there...Liverpool and middlesbrough fans..Should have remembered the stats as they are shocking..
a man u fan was stabbed the other night too... So in my view chuck them out on this fact and the fact over 20 been stabbed over the last 5-6 years.
But you are right Jules mate everybody is entitled to their opinion just yours is wrong
There is no justification for a football fan being stabbed - at the end of the day it's a game.
But you have to look at the differences between the two countrys and their cultures - when foreign teams come to the UK their is a much greater police presence before and after the matches - a visible deterent to avoid trouble - why don't other countrys do this?
Also, when foreign fans come over how many of them will invade a pub, spend most of the afternoon getting pissed and screaming football songs at the top of their lungs? That's an element of the British supporter abroad that hasn't, and probably never will, change.
As I have said - it's about cultural differences.
Oh and their is no "right and wrong" where opinions are concerned 
Noe go and sticky my thread about cooking in House Day pls!
quote:
Originally posted by Danny P
My argument? All I was saying is that the UTD fans reacted when they provoked by the Roma fans, then Italian OB got all excited and started twating people with batons Thats what happend, Fact.
I never said that isn't what happened
I've said that there was provokation from the Roma fans after they went 1-0 up, and provokation happens at every football ground every week, it's the cultures of the different countrys that varys in how this happens.
quote:
Originally posted by Danny P
I know they were bottle of piss as I got a text of mate who was there telling me he'd just been hit by one, and I cant see why he would he just make it up randomly.
Fair enough, I never doubted what was being thrown, I simply asked how you knew and you've answered that.
quote:
Originally posted by Danny P
You also state in your post about culture. Sacrificing a lamb before a game might be culture, I cant see how you can call fans throwing bottles at other fans culture, or are you saying that because its Italian "culture" then its alright?
Because it's part and parcel of the Italian game, and has been for two many years and has become part of their culture - and I never said that it was "alright".
The Italian terraces are, and have been for a while, ruled by violence.
The major clubs have their "Ultra" fans who not only dominate the terraces, but in some cases (Lazio and Roma being the two worst culprits) have some say in the running of the club - this is unacceptable, and the sooner they are removed from their participation the better, aslong as they are there then there will be violence of some sort in the Italian game.
People wondered why there were no police in with the Roma fans - the answer is simple - it's because the police simply don't go into the Curva's where the Ultras are as it will spark violence, it's the Ultras that are their own police in these sections - you could say the police and the clubs turn a blind eye to this to avoid rocking the boat.
The clubs need to work together with the Italian FA and the goverment to stamp out the Ultra's - I don't know how they should do it, but they should.
quote:
Originally posted by Danny P
The point I was making about a bottle being thrown at Huddersfield was more to illustrate the point about reactions. From what you were saying it sounded to me like you were saying the UTD fans shouldn't have reacted. Point i was trying to make was that if someone throws a bottle at you, you'd find it very hard to just stand there and do nothing.
I'm not saying I wouldn't stand their and not react, I don't think there are many people that could do that - I have a lot of self control but everyone has a breaking point.
What I'm trying to say is that throwing things over the barriers at each other is one (wrong) thing - and both teams were as guilty as each other from what I could see, and goading each other one side of a perspex screen is also wrong, but the Man Utd fans were naive to run all the way across there to do the same - there was a policed gap on the terraces between the perspex barrier and the Man Utd fans which the Man Utd fans charged through so they could get to the dividing screen - this is where the Man utd fans were wrong and invoked the police to take action - yes the police were way ott but the police had to take action, their hand was forced when the Man utd fans charged the dividing screen.
Yes the stadium layout is poor, very poor, and putting a clear screen between the fans isn't good enough - if nothing else make it taller and make it solid - not fence height and clear or you're just asking for trouble.
[Edited on 06-04-2007 by Jules]
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Robbo
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Registered: 6th Aug 02
Location: London
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quote:
Originally posted by Russ
how the fuk, can they be allowed to stab Middlesbrough fans, then be allowed to be in uefa competitions, fukin joke.
AGreed, same with Galatasaray and that Leeds fan 
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Robbo
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Registered: 6th Aug 02
Location: London
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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
but I will also guarantee that the Utd fans will get the blame for the problems by UEFA and it will all be down to 'English Hooligans' and how they are still ruining the game
yesh made worse by the fucking thick yids last night
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Robbo
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Registered: 6th Aug 02
Location: London
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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
one rule for us....another rule for others.
It exactly that!!!! Liek when they threatened to kick us out of Euro 2004 if our fans misbehaved 
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