Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
|
Can we keep this on topic. I couldn't care whose moral crusade makes them the better person, the maths is pissed.
|
chris_uk
Premium Member
Registered: 8th Jul 03
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by little_duke
i totally understand where your coming from.he's just getting wound up cause your all slating him for it!
wait a min..
hes the one that took it all out of context to start with, i just let everyone know at the RR'd that the figures were more likley to be at the fly not wheels, then he got in a big huff... why i dont know?
there have been 2 other threads with MSN convos on here which prove his ignorace, i have quoted FACTS! and how to work it out and given different exmaples of why the figures are at the fly.. to which he responds with no facts and just tells me to ring hitech.. or courtneys..
|
Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
|
The two of you can bicker all you like, a standard Z20LET is 199 at the fly and a standard X12 doesn't make 79 at the wheels. Those two facts alone would bring in to question the validity of what you are both proposing.
|
Ant
Member
Registered: 12th May 02
Location: Hereford and Worcester
User status: Offline
|
oh and as for accuracy of said rolling road in solihull, well its only 10 mn from my house yet for some reason id rather travel 75 miles to another RR  
|
Corsa_Scotty
Member
Registered: 8th Aug 07
Location: Scottish Borders
User status: Offline
|
Dont know if this makes any difference or not but this what it says on the courtenay sport site about their stage 3 kit for the Z20LET engines but im not sure at all whether the BHP is meant to be at the wheels or the fly 
Courtenay Sport Stage 3
Tech2 Full Diagnostic Check. Factory Base Software Upgrade as required, Exclusive Courtenay Sport Stage 3 Software upgrade, High Flow Lower Front Mounted Intercooler*, VXR (Z20LEH) turbocharger, VXR Actuator, Oil and Filter Change with Fully Synthetic oil (API:SM). The turbo, combined with our software, is the key to increasing power beyond the 260 bhp mark and producing a strong torque curve, Software customising whilst on our rolling road optimising fuelling, full boost and ignition maps, Full Power and Torque Graph Print Outs.
Increases up to 265 - 270 bhp
[Edited on 28-09-2008 by Corsa_Scotty]
|
chris_uk
Premium Member
Registered: 8th Jul 03
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ian
The two of you can bicker all you like, a standard Z20LET is 199 at the fly and a standard X12 doesn't make 79 at the wheels. Those two facts alone would bring in to question the validity of what you are both proposing.
im proposing that the results are not an at the wheels figure..
its either correct or incorrect..
and ad you just said,, the results of some put into question the results of others..
end of the day im correct.
|
Dave A
USER UNDER INVESTIGATION - DO NOT TRADE
Registered: 10th Dec 03
Location: County Durham
User status: Offline
|
cant see why there is an argument, those are clearly fly figures. I also know that that company give flywheel figures as standard, I had a customer on my dyno 2 weeks ago with a printout and he said it was a fly figure and was only 4 bhp out from the fly figures on my Dyno Dynamics.
|
Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
|
That's fly, so you can compare with the Vauxhall quoted figure for the standard car.
|
ste2k07
Member
Registered: 6th Feb 07
User status: Offline
|
All i have to say to these comments is ..
My sister shell with the coupe has a STANDERD reading from thier coupe of 199BHP then a reading of 267BHP after the stage 3 .. AT THE WHEEL power ..
So 255 being fly wheel power also dosent make secnce
|
Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
|
199 fly and 267 fly.
255 fly means it was warm that day.
|
chris_uk
Premium Member
Registered: 8th Jul 03
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by ste2k07
All i have to say to these comments is ..
My sister shell with the coupe has a STANDERD reading from thier coupe of 199BHP then a reading of 267BHP after the stage 3 .. AT THE WHEEL power ..
So 255 being fly wheel power also dosent make secnce
a z20let is 199 AT THE FUCKING FLY
unless hers wasnt standard to start with.. then its a fly figure.
|
Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
|
Same reply as mine Chris, but I'm not seeing my ass. I would be grateful if you could follow that example.
|
ste2k07
Member
Registered: 6th Feb 07
User status: Offline
|
it was raining so i cant see how it was warm at all ............
|
John
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 03
User status: Offline
|
So the standard 1.2 corsa has 100 bhp at the fly?
|
ste2k07
Member
Registered: 6th Feb 07
User status: Offline
|
Chris says:
did you know BHP and Torque were the same entity?
< > < > VauxOnline.co.uk - Raising The Standards !! < > < > VauxOnline in TOTAL VAUXHALL  says:
so why are the values diffrent ?
|
chris_uk
Premium Member
Registered: 8th Jul 03
User status: Offline
|
quote:
Originally posted by ste2k07
it was raining so i cant see how it was warm at all ............
hmm...
it was hot at times then cold but never really rained, slightly damp when we arrived.
|
Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
|
I was being factitious.
255 when you've previously had a reading of 267 means there's a discrepancy somewhere between the readings. Now as anyone with a modicum of knowledge will be aware, this can be for a number of reasons. Namely ambient heat - atmosphere and engine bay and most critically the maths involved in the coast-down conversion. Again, those people familiar with the techniques required to estimate fly power for a wheel reading will be well aware that this isn't an exact science and there are a number of assumptions that need to be made before an accurate estimation can be made.
Were the 255 and 267 readings at the same road?
|
Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
|
And stop quoting MSN conversations both of you, it makes you look like children who are incapable of presenting a coherent argument publicly.
|
Dave A
USER UNDER INVESTIGATION - DO NOT TRADE
Registered: 10th Dec 03
Location: County Durham
User status: Offline
|
hot weather, rain, humidity, barometric pressure.... none of it matters as all of these are taken into consideration when they calculate the FLYWHEEL figure.
however, gearbox oil temp, tyre pressures, tyre type, engine oil temp... will all make a big difference.
when a car is first run on a dyno you will get a lower figure than you will 10-15 runs later as the transmission losses DECREASE and tyre pressures change as it all warms up, which will gain you power.
When mapping a car you can get around 30-40 power runs clocked up easily. The final runs for the power graphs are often the highest as they are don when everything is very hot which gives the better figures.
The same car can be parked up, warmed up the next day and re-run on the dyno and have 3-4 runs and be 10% or more down on power.
So if the coupe made 267 one day after being modified and then 255 another that is totally normal.
|
ste2k07
Member
Registered: 6th Feb 07
User status: Offline
|
to end this simply ..
If you think
collin - total vauxhall
mick - hi-tech
mick - courtenay sport
is wrong, then you really are in the wrong job... !!!!!!!
|
Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
|
And if you think a Corsa SXi has more power than my 1600 then you need to get off the internet and drive more cars.
|
Dave A
USER UNDER INVESTIGATION - DO NOT TRADE
Registered: 10th Dec 03
Location: County Durham
User status: Offline
|
Total Vauxhall ask the dyno operator to quote flywheel figures, I know this as I was an operator on a dyno day.
Hi-tech quote fly figures, I have seen and compared them in the past.
Courtney sport quote fly figures as they use a Dyno Dynamics dyno, which uses shootout mode and will ALWAYS give fly figures.
|
chris_uk
Premium Member
Registered: 8th Jul 03
User status: Offline
|
this should make it quite simple..
Hitechs graph.
rs tuning
nothing changed in engine at all.
|
Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
|
What does that prove Chris, I'm not clear.
|
jr
Member
Registered: 20th May 02
Location: Kent
User status: Offline
|
so a xe, with some nice mods, made 202 AT THE WHEELS
PMSL
|
