Mobby
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Registered: 31st Dec 07
Location: Leicestershire
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quote:
Originally posted by Gaz
Oh FFS, jakey, you have been hear long enough to know this argument...
 on topid, your new corsa is really nice 
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Vaux Lad
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Registered: 15th Dec 04
Location: Stoke-on-Trent
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A standard 150hp 2.0 16v would be quicker than 150hp na 1.6 16v anyhow.
And will cost like 300quid
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flybikeslee
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Registered: 2nd Jan 07
Location: Liverpool
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vtec it
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Nic Barnes
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Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
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cars are too heavy for the lack of torque m8. wouldnt move m8.
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flybikeslee
Member
Registered: 2nd Jan 07
Location: Liverpool
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dam shit honda engines
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Jakey
Premium Member
Registered: 4th Jun 07
Location: Sandbach
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quote:
Originally posted by mobby
quote:
Originally posted by Gaz
Oh FFS, jakey, you have been hear long enough to know this argument...
on topid, your new corsa is really nice
Cheers boss 
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Mike
Organiser: North West and North Wales
Premium Member
Registered: 20th May 06
Location: nr. Skipton, North Yorkshire
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Jakey you should know by now that if you type 1.6 vs 2.0 into the search you will get no end of threads comparing the 2 and none actually giving an answer because there is no definate answer. It's all personal preference.
Now get an XE then when you can afford it get it throttle bodied and stfu 
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jr
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Registered: 20th May 02
Location: Kent
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quote:
Originally posted by Vaux Lad
A standard 150hp 2.0 16v would be quicker than 150hp na 1.6 16v anyhow.
And will cost like 300quid
and will have done 100k, been raged, and be 20 years old
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Corsa_Scotty
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Registered: 8th Aug 07
Location: Scottish Borders
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quote:
Originally posted by Nic Barnes
tbh, its all about tb'd turbo'd 2litres for me.
FTW 
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DizzyRebel
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Registered: 2nd Jan 09
Location: Lincoln
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quote:
Originally posted by jr
quote:
Originally posted by DizzyRebel
... only retards try and build a 160bhp 1.6 when you could slot a bigger lump in for less cash for better results.
[Edited on 15-02-2009 by DizzyRebel]
or want a sharper handling and lighter weight car and know what there speaking about 
I built race bikes for british championships for a living, i know a thing or 2 about weight saving, distribution and choosing the right lump for the application.
In a road car, it doesnt really matter. I bet an XE weighs maybe 10-15kg more than a C16 max. That 10-15kg isnt even negligible and wont make any difference to handling at all. Its like having an extra gallon of fuel in the tank.
Again a V6 might add an extra 40 kg to the kerb weight but if you actually drove a V6 corsa you would find the extra weight sharpens up the handling and makes the car feel more planted. The Torque makes them much nicer to drive on the road too. you can just toe it in top to overtake quickly at 60mph. in an itb cammed 1.6 you would need to drop 2 or 3 gears to get it to come into the power and scream the nuts off it to get it to overtake in the same scenario.
If your serious about any handling package in any car you would get it corner weighted, and the suspension set up properly to start with.
If your not racing in a class with restricted CC, why would you waste the money trying to get a 1.6 up to the power of a 2.0 by making it a revvy, torqueless engine thats shit to drive on the road and only good for short track racing? In the real world its still not as fast as the 2.0 your trying to avoid.
Revs are the only replacement for displacement in peak power stakes. However, with that you sacrifice low speed torque and midrange that you only get with a larger capacity engine.
If your looking for 200bhp, which is a nice figure in a corsa and about right before the chassis is at its limit id go with a 3.0 V6 for cost effectiveness, sound, midrange and reliability.
If you want more potential and a lighter application you could go with a LET.
As for being old high milers that are ragged. You can rebuild an xe/let with shells, rings, lifters gaskets etc for around £500 and then your running a basically brand new engine and know its right for peace of mind before you bolt it in. V6's dont need rebuilding till over 200k and if you blow one up its only £300 for another so its no biggy.
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Tom
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: Wirral, Merseyside
User status: Offline
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**Rubs hands together**
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Ellis
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Registered: 11th Sep 07
Location: Aberdeenshire
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I rebuilt an XE for £300 just to add that in there...
King Components FTW
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jr
Member
Registered: 20th May 02
Location: Kent
User status: Offline
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[Edited on 15-02-2009 by DizzyRebel]
I built race bikes for british championships for a living, i know a thing or 2 about weight saving, distribution and choosing the right lump for the application.
Thats fine, but the way you out your point accross got the response it did
In a road car, it doesnt really matter. I bet an XE weighs maybe 10-15kg more than a C16 max. That 10-15kg isnt even negligible and wont make any difference to handling at all. Its like having an extra gallon of fuel in the tank.
its around 25kg for the engine iirc, and an F20 is a bit heavier than a F13/F15 as well
Again a V6 might add an extra 40 kg to the kerb weight but if you actually drove a V6 corsa you would find the extra weight sharpens up the handling and makes the car feel more planted. The Torque makes them much nicer to drive on the road too. you can just toe it in top to overtake quickly at 60mph. in an itb cammed 1.6 you would need to drop 2 or 3 gears to get it to come into the power and scream the nuts off it to get it to overtake in the same scenario.
yep agree with that, ive been in 2 v6 corsas, nice cars, dont inspire confidence pushing them as i think it feels to heavy, i dont think more weight is of a benefit, but maybe thats just me
If your serious about any handling package in any car you would get it corner weighted, and the suspension set up properly to start with.
yep, but why disadvantage yourself from the start with a heavier block if your VERY serious you would choose the best option for your needs
If your not racing in a class with restricted CC, why would you waste the money trying to get a 1.6 up to the power of a 2.0 by making it a revvy, torqueless engine thats shit to drive on the road and only good for short track racing? In the real world its still not as fast as the 2.0 your trying to avoid.
but in a road car, and in terms of having used them both, and the fact you can pick up a lower milage better condition 1600 which I prefer, as its my opinion, your notice i didnt say build a torqueless cammed engine anway, but suggested using the tried and tested method of bolt on items to the 1600 to produce what is effectively a good little fast road car
Revs are the only replacement for displacement in peak power stakes. However, with that you sacrifice low speed torque and midrange that you only get with a larger capacity engine.
If your looking for 200bhp, which is a nice figure in a corsa and about right before the chassis is at its limit id go with a 3.0 V6 for cost effectiveness, sound, midrange and reliability.
yep great engine
If you want more potential and a lighter application you could go with a LET.
same if not ore problems than an xe, more expensive to build and run and wasnt the question
As for being old high milers that are ragged. You can rebuild an xe/let with shells, rings, lifters gaskets etc for around £500 and then your running a basically brand new engine and know its right for peace of mind before you bolt it in. V6's dont need rebuilding till over 200k and if you blow one up its only £300 for another so its no biggy.
Yeah i agree, but alot of people arent willing to spend £350 on an engine, and then spend £500 rebuilding it, i did it, but then alot of people wont
[Edited on 16-02-2009 by jr]
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lil_g
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Registered: 29th Oct 06
User status: Offline
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If you can handle the niggles XE it 
But IMO I'd definitely replace as much on the engine as possible, I did it and I feel a lot better driving it knowing a lot of the engine is new
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DizzyRebel
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Registered: 2nd Jan 09
Location: Lincoln
User status: Offline
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So we do see eye to eye then. But the way i see it if someones building a road car they are never 100% serious, as the sacrifices to performance you have to make to keep the car road legal and have some degree of comfort will completely contradict the point of an all out engine application where weight is an issue.
Ie if your not going to strip the car to pretty much bare metal and remove every bit of unwanted trim and sound proofing etc, fit poly windows and composite panels then why let 25kg difference in an engine application bother you?
If it was a sole track day/race car then yes. weight is an absolute factor in any choice one would make towards choosing a powerplant. But in an everyday road car thats going to be taken on a track day - the most cost effective way of hitting a desired power output should be the most favourable option.
People who dont rebuild engines before they put them in should expect them to go wrong and imo are wasting their time with false economy. It IS going to go wrong, sooner rather than later too. Save yourself time and money by rebuilding a lump before you put it in!
If the OC is planning on keeping most of his interior and electrics and using the car daily with the odd track day id reccommend he put in a 3.0 V6.
If hes going to be stripping most of the interior and using the car as a road legal track day weapon then rebuilding an XE and giving it some cams and ITB's would be the favourable option.
If its going to be a track dedicated car trailored to events with a single lightweight bucket, stripped everything with more composite panels than steel with a full cage etc then a race prepped C16XE would be best.
Just depends on peoples project aims really!
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jr
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Registered: 20th May 02
Location: Kent
User status: Offline
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yep fair enough
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SportBoy
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Registered: 5th Oct 01
Location: Retford, Nottinghamshire
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if you wanted a car that handles well you wouldnt buy a corsa tho 
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DizzyRebel
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Registered: 2nd Jan 09
Location: Lincoln
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No, but then again no other Transverse FWD car with a beam rear axle can be made to handle better than another as the chassis dynamics and characteristics will be the same across the board assuming the same amount of money and modifications are made to the chassis first.
This topic assumes that that the OC has already made an educated and well researched decsion into choosing his base car first. Otherwise were opening up a completely different can of worms
Afaik the only hot hatch with independant rear suspension is the EG and early EK civics so if you had to have an FWD hatch they would be your best starting points as they offer superior handling potential compared to any other fwd hatch.
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Mobby
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Registered: 31st Dec 07
Location: Leicestershire
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X18XE1 TUNED!
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spikedjack
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Registered: 16th Oct 08
Location: wolverhampton/cannock
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i reckon the small block 1800 vs xe will be the argument by late this year/early next year
if it was me, i'd 1800/XE it as like you say, having to rape the tits off of the revs to get it to shift, doesnt appeal to me much in a road car,
Not just in giving it beans, but motorway slip roads, overtaking etc etc
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jr
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Registered: 20th May 02
Location: Kent
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by DizzyRebel
No, but then again no other Transverse FWD car with a beam rear axle can be made to handle better than another as the chassis dynamics and characteristics will be the same across the board assuming the same amount of money and modifications are made to the chassis first.
This topic assumes that that the OC has already made an educated and well researched decsion into choosing his base car first. Otherwise were opening up a completely different can of worms
Afaik the only hot hatch with independant rear suspension is the EG and early EK civics so if you had to have an FWD hatch they would be your best starting points as they offer superior handling potential compared to any other fwd hatch.
Focus and clio sports as well iirc
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andy1868
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Registered: 22nd Jun 06
Location: Burscough, Lancashire
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if we're going completely off topic, how about the 205 gti for example? they're highly regarded handling wise aren't they?
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Nic Barnes
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Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
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quote:
Originally posted by andy1868
if we're going completely off topic, how about the 205 gti for example? they're highly regarded handling wise aren't they?
yes.
jr's point about an xe having 100k and being 20 years old is as relevant as most 1.6 16v engines being up to 16 years old and having 100k on them.
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DizzyRebel
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Registered: 2nd Jan 09
Location: Lincoln
User status: Offline
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Hmmm was pretty sure renaultsport clio's were beam rear axle. Infact im sure they are. dont know about focus though!
205 gti was noted for its handling, but they are still no better than you could make a corsa handle. FWD with a torsion beam rear axle.
I think we can all agree on the best hot hatch being the escort cosworth though!
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Nic Barnes
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Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
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thats 4wd. its irrelevant to a corsa discussion about a 1.6 on tb's or an xe conversion really.
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