Fad
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Registered: 1st Feb 01
Location: Dartford Kent Drives: 330cd
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quote:
Originally posted by antmashed
quote:
Originally posted by Warren G
cant comment on the civic
but the astra, very thirty, find myself averaging 25ish mpg, after a few maybe 140+ stints and driving on motorways at 60mph to get mpg back up 
theres something wrong with mine, standard it was slow, lacked boost/pick up/anything - then i went in antz standard one, power delivery is nice
i think iv got some strange turbo/actutor issue 
 fixed?
He is currently fixing it with a hammer 
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Rob B
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Registered: 8th Jan 04
Location: Area Motorsport Drives: Race EP3
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quote:
Originally posted by steven_r2008
quote:
Originally posted by Rob B
quote:
Originally posted by Green Thing
Out of interest Rob, what mod's on the CTR would you need to get to 250bhp?
RBC inlet manifold, DC sport/Buddyclub manifold, 2.5" system/3" system, Some form of intake and hondata management. 
and out of interest, how much would all of that cost  . because my betting is after spending all of that on a ctr to get to 250bhp, you could map the gsi, sort the suspension out and have quite a decent straight line rocket that will go round corners reasonably enough, and still have money to spare (considering getting a race ecu for a ctr costs around £800 and only makes it see around 20 odd bhp increase). tbh the gsi looks absolutely gorgeous, alot rarer than the ctr, and round here about 75% of the ctr's are owned by chavs. oh yeah, and the noise from a gsi with a Miltek system is also lovely
the only up-side i see to the ctr are, out of the box handling heaven, the noise at the higher end, and you will get to see the rear end of a gsi when you hit a hill 
You can never improve upon a flawed chassis, regardless of what you do, especially one with an out of date suspension system to match. You can fit ARB's, coilovers and add some camber, but it will still understeer.
I suppose it's preference, but ask most who have owned a Gsi and they'll tell you it was bland and boring. yes you could get an astra to about 270 Bhp and have an ARB and coilovers. But what people fail to realise is that 270 bhp will tail off quite quickly and the massive dose of torque is although a very good feeling will induce understeer even stronger than before.
I presume you've owned a CTR to comment on the torque, if you haven't and you have rose tinted glasses i think you'll find the create more torque than most 2.0 N/A Cars.
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.dean.
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Registered: 21st Sep 07
Location: Hindley, Wigan Drives: Like Its Stolen!
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gsi + diff! il admit it understeers like mad love mine to bits tho
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DizzyRebel
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Registered: 2nd Jan 09
Location: Lincoln
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The EP CTR's are hardly the pinnacle of handling anyway, i dont know why people seem to stress they are brilliant handling cars when they are just a transverse FWD hatch with torsion beam rear suspension. Any hatch with that layout (civic, astra, clio, 106, saxo, corsa to name but a few) will all handle pretty much the same once the weight distribution and geometry are all optimised for track driving.
If you want a good handling FWD car you need to buy one with independant rear suspension, so fiesta xr2i, ek civic vti, ITR are all capable of handling levels not possible in the list above.
Ive driven a gsi and a ctr, ctr feels more nimble out the box, but is annoying as a daily driver. astra is a better daily driver but requires more modification to make it a worthy trackday warrior. But in all honesty 99% of the time your car is driven on the road and not the track, so the time it gets round the 'ring shouldnt be a major factor when buying a car.
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DizzyRebel
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Registered: 2nd Jan 09
Location: Lincoln
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob B
quote:
Originally posted by steven_r2008
quote:
Originally posted by Rob B
quote:
Originally posted by Green Thing
Out of interest Rob, what mod's on the CTR would you need to get to 250bhp?
RBC inlet manifold, DC sport/Buddyclub manifold, 2.5" system/3" system, Some form of intake and hondata management.
and out of interest, how much would all of that cost . because my betting is after spending all of that on a ctr to get to 250bhp, you could map the gsi, sort the suspension out and have quite a decent straight line rocket that will go round corners reasonably enough, and still have money to spare (considering getting a race ecu for a ctr costs around £800 and only makes it see around 20 odd bhp increase). tbh the gsi looks absolutely gorgeous, alot rarer than the ctr, and round here about 75% of the ctr's are owned by chavs. oh yeah, and the noise from a gsi with a Miltek system is also lovely
the only up-side i see to the ctr are, out of the box handling heaven, the noise at the higher end, and you will get to see the rear end of a gsi when you hit a hill
You can never improve upon a flawed chassis, regardless of what you do, especially one with an out of date suspension system to match. You can fit ARB's, coilovers and add some camber, but it will still understeer.
I suppose it's preference, but ask most who have owned a Gsi and they'll tell you it was bland and boring. yes you could get an astra to about 270 Bhp and have an ARB and coilovers. But what people fail to realise is that 270 bhp will tail off quite quickly and the massive dose of torque is although a very good feeling will induce understeer even stronger than before.
I presume you've owned a CTR to comment on the torque, if you haven't and you have rose tinted glasses i think you'll find the create more torque than most 2.0 N/A Cars.
Its not about how much torque the engine produces, its about how its delivered. torque curve on a ctr compared to a gsi is quite frankly laughable.
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andy1868
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Registered: 22nd Jun 06
Location: Burscough, Lancashire
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i hate to be a prick dizzy, but the EP3 has independant rear suspension. its the FN2 that is the torsion bar 
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Nic Barnes
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Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
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i hate to be picky, but.....
CAN YOU ALL GO AND POST ON YOUR HONDA FORUMS INSTEAD OF HERE.
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andy1868
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Registered: 22nd Jun 06
Location: Burscough, Lancashire
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flybikeslee
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Registered: 2nd Jan 07
Location: Liverpool
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honda smonda
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LeeM
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Registered: 26th Sep 05
Location: Liverpool
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the more i look at civics, the less i like them.
astra definately gets my vote, i'd love one but just going to stick with the engine in my corsa for now
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Warren G
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Registered: 14th May 06
Location: Kent
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my astra is now fixed,
far happier with how it drives now - as in power not handles (boat on wheels)
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Ash_EP3
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Registered: 15th May 07
Location: Melksham, Wiltshire
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I was in exactly the same position as you mate, went from a 1.6 sport to a civic and was very impressed...
Looks: Astra (just)
Drives: Civic
Reliability: Civic?
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Rob B
Member
Registered: 8th Jan 04
Location: Area Motorsport Drives: Race EP3
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quote:
Originally posted by DizzyRebel
The EP CTR's are hardly the pinnacle of handling anyway, i dont know why people seem to stress they are brilliant handling cars when they are just a transverse FWD hatch with torsion beam rear suspension. Any hatch with that layout (civic, astra, clio, 106, saxo, corsa to name but a few) will all handle pretty much the same once the weight distribution and geometry are all optimised for track driving.
If you want a good handling FWD car you need to buy one with independant rear suspension, so fiesta xr2i, ek civic vti, ITR are all capable of handling levels not possible in the list above.
Ive driven a gsi and a ctr, ctr feels more nimble out the box, but is annoying as a daily driver. astra is a better daily driver but requires more modification to make it a worthy trackday warrior. But in all honesty 99% of the time your car is driven on the road and not the track, so the time it gets round the 'ring shouldnt be a major factor when buying a car.
Erm, whilst some things you've said i agree with. This is a comparison between a Astra Gsi and a CTR. The CTR has independant rear suspension, a well thought out MacPherson strut front setup. Which means with minimal mods you can gain alot of camber, can you even get camber on the back of a Astra? Without shims...
If you want a good handling car then double wishbone all round is the way to go like the DC2 or EK9.
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Rob B
Member
Registered: 8th Jan 04
Location: Area Motorsport Drives: Race EP3
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by DizzyRebel
quote:
Originally posted by Rob B
quote:
Originally posted by steven_r2008
quote:
Originally posted by Rob B
quote:
Originally posted by Green Thing
Out of interest Rob, what mod's on the CTR would you need to get to 250bhp?
RBC inlet manifold, DC sport/Buddyclub manifold, 2.5" system/3" system, Some form of intake and hondata management.
and out of interest, how much would all of that cost . because my betting is after spending all of that on a ctr to get to 250bhp, you could map the gsi, sort the suspension out and have quite a decent straight line rocket that will go round corners reasonably enough, and still have money to spare (considering getting a race ecu for a ctr costs around £800 and only makes it see around 20 odd bhp increase). tbh the gsi looks absolutely gorgeous, alot rarer than the ctr, and round here about 75% of the ctr's are owned by chavs. oh yeah, and the noise from a gsi with a Miltek system is also lovely
the only up-side i see to the ctr are, out of the box handling heaven, the noise at the higher end, and you will get to see the rear end of a gsi when you hit a hill
You can never improve upon a flawed chassis, regardless of what you do, especially one with an out of date suspension system to match. You can fit ARB's, coilovers and add some camber, but it will still understeer.
I suppose it's preference, but ask most who have owned a Gsi and they'll tell you it was bland and boring. yes you could get an astra to about 270 Bhp and have an ARB and coilovers. But what people fail to realise is that 270 bhp will tail off quite quickly and the massive dose of torque is although a very good feeling will induce understeer even stronger than before.
I presume you've owned a CTR to comment on the torque, if you haven't and you have rose tinted glasses i think you'll find the create more torque than most 2.0 N/A Cars.
Its not about how much torque the engine produces, its about how its delivered. torque curve on a ctr compared to a gsi is quite frankly laughable.
There is more than ample torque, the gear ratios are well designed aswell which means the "lack" of torque if you want to call it that is made far easier to live with. I really don't see the torque issue, i've never felt in mine " i need more torque "
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Nic Barnes
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Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
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what about if not everybody gave a fuck about track cars and just wanted a car? is it not ok to purcase the car you personally prefer? instead of all the slagging and brand snobbery, just let people like what they like ok?
im sure there are some honda forums out there for you to sign up to.
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Rob B
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Registered: 8th Jan 04
Location: Area Motorsport Drives: Race EP3
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quote:
Originally posted by Nic Barnes
what about if not everybody gave a fuck about track cars and just wanted a car? is it not ok to purcase the car you personally prefer? instead of all the slagging and brand snobbery, just let people like what they like ok?
im sure there are some honda forums out there for you to sign up to.
I'm aware there are Honda forums, but as this thread is Astra GSi vs, CTR do you not feel comments about either car are relevent ? Kindly GTF
And how have either of my two previous comments related to track! Most people who are looking at these sort of cars are buying them because they generally enjoy a spirited drive or two, now i'm sure people would rather do that spirited drive in something nimble rather than a boat.
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Nic Barnes
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Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob B
Astra's are bland and boring to drive, hence why you never see one on track!
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Ash_EP3
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Registered: 15th May 07
Location: Melksham, Wiltshire
User status: Offline
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Nic
I've never noticed the difficulty with torque tbh, quite happily leave it in 5th @ 30mph 6th 35/40.... these cars still produce 140lbs/ft of torque!
In regards to differences with Type R's, the best one to go for is the Facelift Premier Edition but those are still roughly 8-9k... I went for the 30th Anni edition because it was rare (pre-facelift though). So I'd advise looking out for them!
More info on editions:
30th Anniversary
In 2003 Honda decided to celebrate 30 years of producing the Civic by offering a special edition 30th Anniversary Type-R for the EDM. The special edition features special red sports seats from world renowned seat maker Recaro, air conditioning, leather MOMO steering wheel, red carpets and door linings and privacy glass on the rear windows. 30th Anniversary models were available in Nighthawk Black, Satin Silver and Milano Red. Only 300 of these models were produced, 100 in each of the 3 colours.
Premier
In 2005 Honda introduced the Premier edition which had Recaro Trendline seats (similar to those found in the Anniversary Edition, only in red and black rather than all red), a darker shade of fabric on the rear seat centre sections, a Momo Steering Wheel, Red Carpet, "Type R" embossed into the front brake calipers and privacy glass on the rear windows. These were available in Milano Red, Nighthawk Black, Cosmic Grey and Satin Silver.
Still fairly good looking as you can see....
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Rob B
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Registered: 8th Jan 04
Location: Area Motorsport Drives: Race EP3
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Nic Barnes
quote:
Originally posted by Rob B
Astra's are bland and boring to drive, hence why you never see one on track!
And the rest of my comments and justifications i feel will be very helpful to the opp as it should be quite clear if he wants a comfortable cruiser the Astra will be best, if he want's something that's ok at cruising and alot of fun to drive, he should go for the CTR. The CTR also favours reliability massively.
Also - The track comment was in regards to them being bland to drive.
Interestingly, what input have you had on this thread?
[Edited on 24-02-2010 by Rob B]
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Nic Barnes
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Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
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not really mate. im in honda most mornings. loads of fucked type-r's in all the time.
stop being biased.
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Rob B
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Registered: 8th Jan 04
Location: Area Motorsport Drives: Race EP3
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quote:
Originally posted by Nic Barnes
not really mate. im in honda most mornings. loads of fucked type-r's in all the time.
stop being biased.
What's biased ? Tell me a statement that a majority wouldn't agree on. The thing that's making me chuckle Barne is the fact there is 4 - 5 GSi owners in this thread that have all said they handle rubbish, like boats etc. Do you own one ? No.
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CorsAsh
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Registered: 19th Apr 02
Location: Munich
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He's got you hook, line and sinker. Like a giant mackerel.
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Nic Barnes
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Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob B
quote:
Originally posted by Nic Barnes
not really mate. im in honda most mornings. loads of fucked type-r's in all the time.
stop being biased.
What's biased ? Tell me a statement that a majority wouldn't agree on.
that people are free to chose what car they want to buy for whatever reasons they want. not everyone choses a car solely to be track orientated like you do. people chose to buy cars for many different reasons.
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Rob B
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Registered: 8th Jan 04
Location: Area Motorsport Drives: Race EP3
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Great point people do buy cars usually based around there personal needs. However this thread is about a CTR vs Astra Gsi. So once again, you've failed.
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Nic Barnes
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Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
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oh right. I wasnt trying to win.
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