Dione J
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Registered: 22nd Sep 04
Location: West Midlands Drives: Leon Cupra Turbo
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What company you applying for?
I'm hopefully getting a interview lined up for Monday 
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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My dream situation would probably to get hired by 'ca'
Computer Associates.
They're a large organisation, based conviently really near my parents house.
They're a large international company that do things correctly and embrace new technology.
They are also voted as being in one of the top 100 companies to work for!
over 50% of their staff get paid over £55k  So you know you have a good chance at a career there / progression.
Plus benefits seem good.
If I got a job there, I'd probably get more money than now, have a better work environment, with more self worth and personal development with great future prospects.
Plus, it's right near my parents, so I could move back home and put loads of money in the bank to go buy a house.
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Reedy
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Registered: 11th Apr 04
Location: Hammersmith
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Jambo - A lucky escape then, or maybe you were keeping them afloat 
Paul - The grass is always greener, I would be happy right now if somebody offered me your job. Why dont you try and start up your own business in your spare time whilst working at this place and then leave when your business is stable enough?
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul_J
I've already been begged to stay back in Nov when I said I wanted to leave and was given a 5k rise. I know the guy sitting next to me has been through the same process too in the past.
That tells me that you weren't on enough to start with.
Out of interest, what master strokes of genius do you hold the keys to? Perhaps you could write a book and reinvent the sector. 
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Chris
Premium Member
Registered: 21st Sep 99
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When you come to give your leaving date, dont put the Friday of the week you leave.
Put Sunday 23:59 otherwise this will class as not working for the SAT and SUN.
Will affect your pension etc.
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Gaz
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Registered: 24th Aug 03
Location: Widnes, Cheshire
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul_J
My dream situation would probably to get hired by 'ca'
Computer Associates.
They're a large organisation, based conviently really near my parents house.
They're a large international company that do things correctly and embrace new technology.
They are also voted as being in one of the top 100 companies to work for!
over 50% of their staff get paid over £55k So you know you have a good chance at a career there / progression.
Plus benefits seem good.
If I got a job there, I'd probably get more money than now, have a better work environment, with more self worth and personal development with great future prospects.
Plus, it's right near my parents, so I could move back home and put loads of money in the bank to go buy a house.
our service desk tool in work is a CA tool. Not a bad one but could do with a few tweeks 
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AndyKent
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Registered: 3rd Sep 05
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I don't know the exactly situation you're in, and what exactly you think the company is doing wrong, but it sounds like the typical uni-grad speil of thinking you know what they're doing wrong, but up to now they've done just fine and it doesn't look like anything will change.
Its all well and good saying they're thinking of the short term profit, but if they've been running a long time doing what they do and they're not getting left behind they'll need a very good reason to change their ways.
To be honest it sounds like you're more bored of working there after a spell at uni/travelling and just fed up.
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Mike2k111
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Registered: 7th Oct 03
Location: N.Wales
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Having read through most of this thread what sort of development approach and project management software does the company you work for implement?
I managed to get a developer role out of university with a ftse 250 company who currently follow an agile software development process and we have a mixture of devs, BA, project management and testing teams sitting and working within 10meters of each other.
We use a combination of Jira and Altiris for managing bug tracking and change requests.
http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/
http://www.symantec.com/business/theme.jsp?themeid=altiris
Im really loving working there mainly because of the interaction between all the teams on a daily basis. One thing I was a little concerned about when taking up a dev position was the idea of working in isolation and never really understanding the bigger picture on why things were heading a certain direction.
I've found that the agile approach to development great for my type of personality because i've learnt so much about the bigger picture of the business and it really helps to when making decisions because you can appreciate how it effects other peoples area of work.
We've got the BA's wacking out PHP scripts and SQL queries etc just from what they have learnt through interaction with the devs. Just find it great working in such close coordination with 9-10 other people who each have their own business area in mind. Maybe its something like this you are looking for? Can appreciate that it might seem like they follow a crap business model but maybe its more a case of them isolating the dev team away from the bigger picture so you never really get the real understanding of why things happen the way they do.
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Nath
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: MK
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Tommy L
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Registered: 21st Aug 06
Location: Northampton Drives: Audi wagon
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I got up to "I'll give you a basic example of their key problems..." then scrolled a bit, then a bit more and then some more, so I'm sorry Paul, but i'm not reading all of that
As for leaving, I would just hand in your notice and not even think about the ifs and buts and just get on with working till your last day. I wouldn't worry about anyone else or your employer begging you to stay.
[Edited on 25-03-2010 by Tommy L]
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Nath
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Registered: 3rd Apr 02
Location: MK
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Ahhh, where did the essay go? 
[Edited on 25-03-2010 by Nath]
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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Trust me peeps... It's not be just thinking 'I know it all' ... My company is bad.
If you want to know exactly how bad, u2u me and I have an essay saved for you
It's beside the point, I want to go somewhere good. I know plenty of devs and what their working environments are like and this company i work for just have cocked it up and will never grow any bigger unless they fix it.
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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quote:
Originally posted by Nath
Ahhh, where did the essay go?
[Edited on 25-03-2010 by Nath]
I u2u'd to the appropriate people who asked
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Ian W
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Registered: 8th Nov 03
Location: Wirral, Merseyside
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I see the points you made in the essay but I think your looking at it abit one dimensionally tbh. Your seeing it from the development side which can't be helped as thats what you see.
Similar situation in my work, spend most of my days writing bolt ons for the main company system which is written in Access 97 - badly needing to be rewritten in a coding language developed in this centuary but the long and short of it is that man power, time and money to rewrite the thing is really not cost effective enough to justify it.
Edit - Meant to add, just hand your notice in and leave it at that, if they try to get you to stay just say thanks but no thanks. Did it myself at my last place, treated me like a mug for 3 years then where suprised when I left
[Edited on 26-03-2010 by Ian W]
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Hammer
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Registered: 11th Feb 04
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
quote:
Originally posted by Paul_J
I've already been begged to stay back in Nov when I said I wanted to leave and was given a 5k rise. I know the guy sitting next to me has been through the same process too in the past.
That tells me that you weren't on enough to start with.
Out of interest, what master strokes of genius do you hold the keys to? Perhaps you could write a book and reinvent the sector.
Nah but seriously, don't write a book
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian W
I see the points you made in the essay but I think your looking at it abit one dimensionally tbh. Your seeing it from the development side which can't be helped as thats what you see.
Similar situation in my work, spend most of my days writing bolt ons for the main company system which is written in Access 97 - badly needing to be rewritten in a coding language developed in this centuary but the long and short of it is that man power, time and money to rewrite the thing is really not cost effective enough to justify it.
Edit - Meant to add, just hand your notice in and leave it at that, if they try to get you to stay just say thanks but no thanks. Did it myself at my last place, treated me like a mug for 3 years then where suprised when I left
Oh I agree Ian... that's why things don't change... but it doesn't change the fact that it's not enjoyable as a job (well I aspire to more).
- That's why I want to leave. I think there are lots of companies in similar situations - which doens't make the situation right.
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AndyKent
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Registered: 3rd Sep 05
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If you're really not happy nothing anyone says will change your mind, but from the first half of what you wrote (didn't read it all tbh) you're asking them to pay you (and the team) a fortune rewriting stuff all without any direct income.
Thats a massive ask, particularly in times like these when work isn't so forthcoming, and one that should really be done with a client willing to fund the lot rather than funded by the company for the next client.
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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read it all andy.
... bottom line is... if they don't want to have a re write... then it'll always remain shit / get worse.
That makes a bad / unenjoyable / unmotivational environment to work in...
Refer to my post about the dead pool on the last page... Only the shit people who can't get jobs elsewhere will put up with it and stay.
I guess it's similar to how when I came back from travelling - I was surrounded by people without jobs, who were saying they had been unemployed for 6-18 months and that I would not find a job for months.
I told my dad that I wanted to spend a month getting back up to speed with code / latest technologies etc... and until I'd done that I wouldn't even start looking for a job.
He + Everyone else (non programmers) said I was mad and should start looking now as it'll take months anyway to find somewhere.
... Once my month of swatting up was done, I spent 1 day applying to jobs. Within a day I had several interviews lined up, within a week I had a job.
Point is, why should I just stay here, if I do get offered another job? I don't know what you do Andy, but I'm assuming you're in a situation where if you left you'd be struggling to find employment? (and thus you think I should be thankful I have a job at all?).
imo (and DaveyLC / James / IanW etc) will back me up on this... In software development, employers are always looking for 'good people'... If you've got good quals, good experience and can display intelligence - you'll get a job.
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AndyKent
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Registered: 3rd Sep 05
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If you get offered another better paid/better prospects job then of course go for it - I never said don't, but the way you're coming across on here it sounds like you're one of the best developers around and other companies would be sorry not to have you. Maybe that is actually the case, but its pretty big-headed whichever way you look at it.
As it happens I'm a building surveyor and, as you might be aware, its an industry rather on its knees. Our company is lucky to be doing absolutely fine, and I also walked into the job - 1st interview I went for I got it, but I'm trying to be a bit more 'real world' about it in saying that you can't expect everything to go as smoothly as that.
Just because you don't 100% like what you're doing and the way they run things, doesn't make it a bad place to work is all I'm pointing out. I'm not saying 'just put up with it' - try much harder to make them improve things. Organise meetings to properly discuss the shortcomings. Don't just leave because you think it sucks.
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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^^ See the previous replies to reedy... Meetings have been had, suggestions have been made... it comes down to what you said... and nothing will change.
quote:
If you get offered another better paid/better prospects job then of course go for it - I never said don't, but the way you're coming across on here it sounds like you're one of the best developers around and other companies would be sorry not to have you. Maybe that is actually the case, but its pretty big-headed whichever way you look at it.
Not at all... I have plenty to learn and grow. That won't happen here / will only make me worse staying here. That is my point.
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Reedy
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Registered: 11th Apr 04
Location: Hammersmith
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I think you should stick with the job and look at starting your own business. Do it while you dont have any collateral. Setup your own software house, thats what im looking at doing whilst working.
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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As I just said on the u2u...
Starting up my own software house would be a really bad move.
There's so much more involved in running a successful software house than just coding... Sales, marketting, support, finance, etc...
You initially get attracted by the idea thinking, I can code and I don't mind charging less than the competition... On the short term you'll make money! Taking on a few projects and getting paid a nice amount.
But... long term, you'll have to grow to support the client base and take on new clients... as this process occurs you essentially end up in the mess my company is in.
If you want to start your own company, do a start up ... e.g. make a product which you believe the world needs and run with it.
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Reedy
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Registered: 11th Apr 04
Location: Hammersmith
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul_J
If you want to start your own company, do a start up ... e.g. make a product which you believe the world needs and run with it.
Yeah I have got a product, I'm developing the software for handheld smart card terminals and my dad is handling the supply of them.
http://www.pradonetusa.com/
The ST4EX product, has a built in finger print scanner aswell.
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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That's cool then
Bloody agencys are ringing me at work 
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Reedy
Member
Registered: 11th Apr 04
Location: Hammersmith
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul_J
That's cool then
Bloody agencys are ringing me at work
doh, just pretend its a friend needing help
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