Toby
Premium Member
Registered: 29th Nov 05
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quote:
Originally posted by Eck
It was Russ who told me beforehand that it's the rollers that are making big losses! That's what I was saying to everyone anyway. I'm happy with how my car runs, and I'm glad I got a benchmark!
That would suggest the software they are using is not calibrated for the rollers so cant even be sure if the WBHP is accurate then.
Not saying he doesnt know what hes saying or what hes doing as i have seen a hell of a lot more adjustment due to 'Transmission Loss'
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Eck
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Registered: 17th Apr 06
Location: Lundin Links, Fife
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Forgive me for trusting one of the most renowned guys around from someone on the internet. Like I said, I'll have to find out exactly what he meant.
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Mike
Organiser: North West and North Wales
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Registered: 20th May 06
Location: nr. Skipton, North Yorkshire
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Is this the same place that you went to last year when Nic and I came up? May give an explaination for my 50bhp atw 
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Ben G
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Registered: 12th Jan 07
Location: Essex
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quote:
Originally posted by Eck
Forgive me for trusting one of the most renowned guys around from someone on the internet. Like I said, I'll have to find out exactly what he meant.
whilst i agree wirh you, the guy isnt going to turn around and say his dyno which cost thousands is a piece of shit and youve all wasted your money is he
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big eck
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Registered: 20th Apr 03
Location: Tullibody. Drives - Audi B8 S4 & Fiesta Zetec-S
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If you knew who he was Ben you'd know why he's very highly regarded and isn't known to talk out his ass just to keep customers happy lol.
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Eck
Premium Member
Registered: 17th Apr 06
Location: Lundin Links, Fife
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben G
quote:
Originally posted by Eck
Forgive me for trusting one of the most renowned guys around from someone on the internet. Like I said, I'll have to find out exactly what he meant.
whilst i agree wirh you, the guy isnt going to turn around and say his dyno which cost thousands is a piece of shit and youve all wasted your money is he
The thing is Ben, he actually spent 10 minutes explaining it all to me before a single car went on. But I was too tired/hungry/eager to actually listen 
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craig8
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Registered: 31st Dec 04
Location: Glasgow
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Sorry to drag up an old thread but forgot to post this a while ago, anyway a couple of months after this day I took the car back to russ to check for vac leaks, found a couple so uploaded the bluefin map and ran it, found it to be running lean still so flashed the standard map on again and fueling was perfect again so made the decision for russ to map it there and then
Now to clear up the difference in the fly estimate and wheel reading eck is right about the rollers being smaller so the percentage gap is larger, you can add between 60 and 70bhp on for pub figures, seriously impressive bit of kit and since it has obd2 logging on it we decided it was worth while to test the mad sensor while it was plugged in
Well chuffed with the way it drives, very smooth coming onto boost then just pulls unlIke the Thorney Map which was pretty sharp right away
Don't know if this will upload from the phone right but will give it a go
[Edited on 07-06-2012 by craig8]
E36 328
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craig8
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Registered: 31st Dec 04
Location: Glasgow
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If not then the link is http://m1084.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/craig_88/Snapbucket/CC93F1A1.jpg.html?o=0
E36 328
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Seany
Member
Registered: 13th Dec 06
Location: Dunfermline, Fife : Drives Astra cdti Sri
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Good stuff! I was meant to be in on Monday to get a new cooler and pulley etc fitted but couldn't get the time off work. Need to book it in again soon. Got my eye on a cat cam too  of I get that I will get some 500 or 450ys and get it mapped by russ too.
[Edited on 06-06-2012 by Seany]
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3i_gaz
Member
Registered: 29th Nov 07
Location: Liverpool
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225 injectors were maxing out at 260 horsepower?!
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craig8
Premium Member
Registered: 31st Dec 04
Location: Glasgow
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quote:
Originally posted by 3i_gaz
225 injectors were maxing out at 260 horsepower?!
Me or Sean?
E36 328
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Seany
Member
Registered: 13th Dec 06
Location: Dunfermline, Fife : Drives Astra cdti Sri
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Mine isn't 260. 
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3i_gaz
Member
Registered: 29th Nov 07
Location: Liverpool
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Original post the Leon cupra R
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Toby
Premium Member
Registered: 29th Nov 05
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quote:
Originally posted by Toby
quote:
Originally posted by Eck
It was Russ who told me beforehand that it's the rollers that are making big losses! That's what I was saying to everyone anyway. I'm happy with how my car runs, and I'm glad I got a benchmark!
That would suggest the software they are using is not calibrated for the rollers so cant even be sure if the WBHP is accurate then.
Not saying he doesnt know what hes saying or what hes doing as i have seen a hell of a lot more adjustment due to 'Transmission Loss'
Again I stand by this if he's telling you the rollers are smaller causing issues. Though I'm not a tuner/mapper
If that's the case I wouldn't be happy with them mapping it but as long as your happy.
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craig8
Premium Member
Registered: 31st Dec 04
Location: Glasgow
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That's just how the mainline dynos are built and I highly doubt that a company who not only repair and calibrate most brands of dyno are not capable of setting up and using the machine and software that they are the main dealer for, the difference isn't in the software but rather a physical difference on the machine and at no point did it cause any issues?
E36 328
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Seany
Member
Registered: 13th Dec 06
Location: Dunfermline, Fife : Drives Astra cdti Sri
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That's like saying you wouldn't trust putting smaller or bigger wheels on your car. They work the same but the rolling radius is different giving you a different number.
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broster
Premium Member
Registered: 6th Dec 02
Location: Drives: E39
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quote:
Originally posted by Eck
Tbh, at the wheel is how it should be given. As that's the genuine figure, not the pub one 
tbh a rolling road should be used as a tuning and diagnostic tool. no two runs will be the same, no two rolling roads will be the same.
and for what its worth i prefer a flywheel figure thats calculated from run down so it works out the losses not guess them.
wheel figures can be hugely affected by tyres/tyre pressure.
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DaveyLC
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Registered: 8th Oct 08
Location: Berkshire
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quote:
Originally posted by Eck
Guys, ATW figures  The thing is, I don't quite understand what he was telling me, but something about the size of the rollers themselves, being a bit smaller than normal, produce greater losses than others or some shit
You can take R/R results with a pinch of salt.. Their job is to setup your car and make sure its running within its limits and if you choose the same R/R for each run it makes for a useful constant to record relative power gains.
Other than that its just some more bullshit to talk about in the pub. 
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big eck
Member
Registered: 20th Apr 03
Location: Tullibody. Drives - Audi B8 S4 & Fiesta Zetec-S
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quote:
Originally posted by 3i_gaz
225 injectors were maxing out at 260 horsepower?!
Just going by what the operator said.
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Toby
Premium Member
Registered: 29th Nov 05
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by craig8
That's just how the mainline dynos are built and I highly doubt that a company who not only repair and calibrate most brands of dyno are not capable of setting up and using the machine and software that they are the main dealer for, the difference isn't in the software but rather a physical difference on the machine and at no point did it cause any issues?
Just because i could own a ferrari deosnt mean that its running correctly.......
Cause issues..... Well thats open to debate. They are estimating transmision losses at 33% (well on the leon) which is hughly different to an 'industry standard' of circa 15%. They then tell you that its different becuase the machine uses different sized rollers, that shouldnt make a blind bit of diferance to how efficent your gearbox is unless the software on the dyno is incorrect surely.
Like i said as long as your happy but ive had some negative experiances with tuning companies and truth being bent
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craig8
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Registered: 31st Dec 04
Location: Glasgow
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Just to clarify that's it's not only this garage that advises that btw, these machines are pretty common in Australia and America and the same opinion is held there as you can see with a quick google
I don't know what you do mate but unless it's repairing and overhauling ferarris as a professional then your analogy doesn't work
E36 328
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BarnshaW
Member
Registered: 25th Oct 06
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when this thread was posted i didnt understand how the figures were being calculated and today i still dont understand , can someone explain it for my own benefit because i have never seen it been quoted differenty (not saying its untrue) just odd.
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Toby
Premium Member
Registered: 29th Nov 05
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quote:
Originally posted by craig8
Just to clarify that's it's not only this garage that advises that btw, these machines are pretty common in Australia and America and the same opinion is held there as you can see with a quick google
I don't know what you do mate but unless it's repairing and overhauling ferarris as a professional then your analogy doesn't work
Well just because they own a kit and it was professionally installed at the time doesn't (just as I could buy a perfectly running ferrari) doesn't mean it's working correctly now.
Unless your implying that they (the tuner) also supplies and fits the dynos and if that's the case then why are they mapping cars?
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Toby
Premium Member
Registered: 29th Nov 05
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quote:
Originally posted by BarnshaW
when this thread was posted i didnt understand how the figures were being calculated and today i still dont understand , can someone explain it for my own benefit because i have never seen it been quoted differenty (not saying its untrue) just odd.
Basically most tuners use a calculation based upon drag (when they lift off on the rolling road) to work out the inefficiency of the gearbox, this is a rough calculation as there are a few factors but essentially this is how you obtain a Flywheel BHP figure and what most tuners produce due the 'feel good' factor though can quite largely inaccurate at times 95% of the time you don't get a Wheel BHP figure. Where a calculation isn't possible (generally hub dynos as opposed to a rolling road) this is manually calculated at about 15% inefficiency give or take across the industry. What the said tuner is saying is that he has provided a WBHP figure and then used a 35% inefficiency which seems very high and abnormal.
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Eck
Premium Member
Registered: 17th Apr 06
Location: Lundin Links, Fife
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Since that day, I gained 30bhp at the wheels... Didn't get a shot as my mrs claimed it for three days, then I got two hours out of the car before the purge valve got blocked, and overboosted the charger, blowing it into an unrepairable amount of bits
[Edited on 07-06-2012 by Eck]
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