Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
User status: Online
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quote:
Originally posted by Mattb
without any kind of training you could end up being led down the garden path or round in circles..
Good couple of examples of faults being 'Bank 1 catalyst efficiency too low sporadic' or 'EGR system throughput too high' or 'Bank 1 mixture adaption at idle too lean'
There are loads of examples of red herrings in the error lists, even the generic simple stuff.
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AlunJ
Member
Registered: 3rd Apr 07
Location: Newport
User status: Offline
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Fucking hell  think the full service at Renault is about £250 and includes mot.
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Mattb
Member
Registered: 2nd Feb 03
Location: Under your sisters bed
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
Probably means different things to different people.
You main dealer folk can defend it if you wish but you're paying for the plastic flowers somehow.
Likewise back street will cut corners because its their money they're spending on doing it properly.
Out of interest what is involved in an R8 oil change?
Depends on if its a V8 or V10 - Both run dry sumps
V8 is much easier - needs to be hot when the oil is drained and you simply drain the oil tank and the move onto 3 seperate sump plugs easily found on the sump pan - fill with oil - run up to temp and check. obviously a filter change also
V10 is fine if you know what you are looking for - there is no sump pan - again hot engine - drain oil tank - drain oil cooler - drain engine oil from 3 places - one being a plate between the gearbox and engine - the other two are on the oil pump - one on the side one on the bottom.
Weirdly the V10 takes 1.7 litres of oil less than the V8
The R8 i saw serviced elsewhere was a V8 that had a large torx bolt removed (and rounded) from a reletive high point between the engine and box to drain the oil.. nothing else - not even the oil tank....
[Edited on 29-03-2012 by Mattb]
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Joe
Member
Registered: 20th Jun 04
Location: Hesketh Bank, Lancashire
User status: Offline
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Omg patronising? Coming from one of the biggest twats on here? Fucking rich that
Also show off bullshit?? How exactly?  i just so happens to have done a lot in my personal and working life so I'm more than qualified to have an opinion. Take Vagcom for instance. I got all the gear and could 'diagnose' faults all by myself with no training.
Even the lads in work say they are techies and NOT mechanics. If there was ever an older car come in with a real problem then Steve (46 and a proper mechanic since he was 16) would have to do it as the other lads never had a clue.
And I'm talking from experience aswell, being an engineer and all, oh and a qualified spark.
I'm interested to know how I'm the biggest twat on here? I post a few times a week if that. Usually to offer sensible advice.
Also well done for working out to how open software. Thats like saying I could work on computers for opening a virus scanner?
I'm not interested in anything you have to say, well done on achieving a lot in life. You just have an issue with me for picking up on your weak attempt at trying to show of you were going to spend £30k on a car. How is your rs4 by the way?
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Mattb
Member
Registered: 2nd Feb 03
Location: Under your sisters bed
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
You main dealer folk can defend it if you wish but you're paying for the plastic flowers somehow.
I'll always depend from my position - i like to think the quality of my work is good enough to warrent the rediculous labour rate however i do see it from both sides of the fence - i have worked at an independant specialist also and its sometimes difficult as you arent free to do the job the way you want and are forced to cut some corners (reusing old gaskets using sealer to seal stuff when its not appropriate etc) but then again its substantially cheaper that way.
Again its more what you are comfortable with and the percieved level of workmanship. Its the same in any area - Food for example - some people are perfectly happy with steak and chips at the local pub, it might even be epic steak - but for some they would rather go to a michelin stared resteraunt and have a 2oz steak with 3 chips that costs 5 times as much as the pub because its perceived to be better and hey it could be.....
You'll never win with the internetz because unfortunately some people just shout louder than others
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Mattb
Member
Registered: 2nd Feb 03
Location: Under your sisters bed
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by JoeHow is your rs4 by the way?
DRC is leaking..............
(sorry i couldnt help it!! )
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antnee
Member
Registered: 30th Dec 07
Location: Cov Drives: Clio 197
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by sc0ott
Would rather spend that little more buying a car with service history than one without, especially if it was 10 years old.
Could make it easier to sell.
It will still have the history, its one service done by the owner instead of the dealer.
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baza31
Member
Registered: 19th Apr 03
Location: yorkshire
User status: Offline
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Only difference between main dealers and another garage is price.
Each mechanic is different, you get shit ones and good ones. Because they are employed by a "main dealer" doesn't make the quality any better.
Am biased obviously but when it comes to a service anyone with half a brain could do it correctly if they so wished.
The only time that main dealers may cone trumps is fall back cover if they do anything wrong BUT from hearing off alot of people this more and more isn't the case and the dealers wriggle just as hard as "back street garages"
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sc0ott
Member
Registered: 16th Feb 09
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by antnee
quote:
Originally posted by sc0ott
Would rather spend that little more buying a car with service history than one without, especially if it was 10 years old.
Could make it easier to sell.
It will still have the history, its one service done by the owner instead of the dealer.
But 74k or every 5 or 10 years usually contains something major.
Anybody can check the colour of the oil.
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pow
Premium Member
Registered: 11th Sep 06
Location: Hazlemere, Buckinghamshire
User status: Offline
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Lol, I've got to part with £500 on Monday to have the final 'in warranty' service done on the Alfa. They wanted £375 to do the service and not to change the oil, then the change oil warning light came on on my dashboard and that's another £125.
Daylight robbery.
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bubble
Member
Registered: 24th Jan 04
Location: Darwin, NT Australia.
User status: Offline
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I love all of the people saying you plug the diag in and it tells you what to replace. what a load of tosh.
CAN Communication error. what gets replaced then?
what about when reprogamming a rec, uec, cim,pdm, ddm etc? a "tech" is needed to do this.
LOL
labour rates-what about the rental charges the garage pay for the site? what about the franchised name for the car manufacturer? electric bills? the 40-50 staff who work at some garages? the software rights to the diag equipment?
people need jump off their high horse. you can get a house built for 90k, or pay 150k for the same one. theres ways and means for everything
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pow
Premium Member
Registered: 11th Sep 06
Location: Hazlemere, Buckinghamshire
User status: Offline
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I understand bubble, it's just frustrating that I have to part with sooo much money when I know I can change the oil, brake fluid and filters myself.
Also, I do not take kindly to some monkey ragging my car about, so I will be doing the same with their courtesy car
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John
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 03
User status: Offline
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Build the house for 90k, sell for 180k, buy Lamborghini.
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by bubble
I love all of the people saying you plug the diag in and it tells you what to replace. what a load of tosh.
CAN Communication error. what gets replaced then?
what about when reprogamming a rec, uec, cim,pdm, ddm etc? a "tech" is needed to do this.
LOL
labour rates-what about the rental charges the garage pay for the site? what about the franchised name for the car manufacturer? electric bills? the 40-50 staff who work at some garages? the software rights to the diag equipment?
people need jump off their high horse. you can get a house built for 90k, or pay 150k for the same one. theres ways and means for everything
no lie I took a car to a main dealer with a problem they plugged into diag, which reported no problem so they gave me the car back and said they couldn't fix it
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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Also if they are having problems reading diags most of the time they just say new ecu, in fact they seem to use this a lot
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John
Member
Registered: 30th Jun 03
User status: Offline
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I understand completely why dealers cost what they do, and 90% of people still like to see the main dealer stamp, even I do and I wouldn't take my car to one.
You do not need a 'tech' to program the modules though.
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Ojc
Member
Registered: 14th Nov 00
Location: Reading: Drives : Clio 197
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Also if they are having problems reading diags most of the time they just say new ecu, in fact they seem to use this a lot
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Nismo
Member
Registered: 12th Sep 02
User status: Offline
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do people not understand main dealer labour rates 
The miss mum took her audi in for an mot and a few bits that needed sorting, cost 600 in labour 
[Edited on 30-03-2012 by Nismo]
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Joe
Member
Registered: 20th Jun 04
Location: Hesketh Bank, Lancashire
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by pow
Lol, I've got to part with £500 on Monday to have the final 'in warranty' service done on the Alfa. They wanted £375 to do the service and not to change the oil, then the change oil warning light came on on my dashboard and that's another £125.
Daylight robbery.
Again that's your perogative. Any garage can do that service, so long as they use genuine parts or parts of oe quality. There is no need to take it to Alfa other than to have an Alfa stamp regardless of warranty.
[Edited on 30-03-2012 by Joe]
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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I understand the rates but by no means does it mean you are getting a top class service
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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Oh and by law you don't have to have main dealer stamps anymore to retain warranty
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sc0ott
Member
Registered: 16th Feb 09
User status: Offline
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Yes but genuine parts have to be used though?
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Joe
Member
Registered: 20th Jun 04
Location: Hesketh Bank, Lancashire
User status: Offline
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No they don't, just have to be to oe quality. Obviously it's nicer to use genuine but seeing as genuine ones are made by hengst/mahle etc you can use other brands.
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richc
Member
Registered: 24th Mar 07
Location: Ilkeston
User status: Offline
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Thats one thing i didnt like when i had a 'newish car' - taking it to a fucking garage for the warrenty for everything.
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Fonz
Premium Member
Registered: 12th May 06
Location: Newbury, Berks
User status: Offline
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thanks for all the comments, i didnt expect the conversation to escalate into such a big discussion!
i will be doing the "major" service work as i am more than experienced in doing so having done all of this and more in my years of car ownership - the only reason i rang was to confirm what needs looking at, which seems simply to replace.
like LeeM mention their price does include a inspection of key parts, but again it nothing i can't do myself.
the Jazz has 2 main dealer stamps then all the rest have been from the same independant local garage. Given its age and cost when we come to sell it i see no disadvantage in doing the work myself, providing it is recorded and done at the recommended intervals.
we bought the car at £2500 and don't expect to sell for 18 months or more when i expect the price to have dropped to £1200-1500 or lower - cars at this price the addtion of service history is a bonus rather than a must, certainly in my experience service history gets sketchy as the years go by, and i would be looking at the regularity of the servicing rather than by who....looking at the owner and the state of the car will tell me enough about how they feel about the car.
it makes sense to save £300 now as a full service history will not be worth £300 when we come to sell...
to join in with the way the conversation has gone, i can see the arguments for going with a dealer and their prcies, but whether going with a main dealer or independant, the costs for relatively simply work is very high, justified by the outgoings as mentioned, but high none the less
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