Kyle T
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Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
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quote:
Originally posted by chris_uk
Learn to drive the engine you have now, upgrade bits and pieces as you start to feel they are letting you down and only when you feel its just the engine whoch is letting you down.. Then Get more power.
By letting you down i mean the weakest link.
Wise Words, it's not a track car though so power is always good for being a sliproad terrorist every now and then 
I think handling needs a bit more work first, probably coilovers... we'll see. Got plans for aesthetic stuff too in the interior - need a garage first.
Lotus Elise 111R
Impreza WRX STi
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chris_uk
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Registered: 8th Jul 03
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Just because i drive a track prepped car doesnt mean everything i say is track orientated.
Handling is arguably more important on the road as you have less chance of recovering from a mistake.
Never scrimp on tyres, and dont assume coilovers automatically mean your car will handle better, placebo is powerful and because it feels hard, bouncy and corners flat doesnt mean its good, on the road id actually argue that what you have now is probably the best thing you can get without throwing lots of money at it, just get a geo done and buy some decent rubber (if it isnt already) and then learn your car.
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Kyle T
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Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
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Fair comments, and I agree.
The issue I'm facing though (I touched on this a page or two ago) is my inability to really gauge what suspension changes are having what impact on the handling of my car.
I'm pretty happy with the "slow speed" handling for example stop/go type corners and I feel that the understeer - oversteer transition is controllable and predictable... which is a good thing, right?
If I'm pushing the car to the point it's understeering though, I'm already driving too fast for the conditions and it's a bit silly really - hence me looking to spend some time out on track.
So I agree with handling improvements being the most logical/safest area of concern for road use - but testing any potential changes is difficult without track time so I think handling and track time go hand in hand.
If you read back a fair few pages, I decided against coilovers as a resolution to the clunking/sticking rear shocks and opted to refurb them instead. I did this because I didn't feel ready to spend out on the coilovers I'd want/need to actually be an improvement. Buying the cheapest on the market would have been a handling downgrade.
My rubber is fine, I've had three different brands on now and my current setup is the favourite.
Power is easy, it's either faster or it's not! In that respect it's an easier route to performance 
Lotus Elise 111R
Impreza WRX STi
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BeetleGav
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Registered: 27th Jun 10
Location: lancashire, nelson
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Coilovers make it more aesthetically pleasing too though 
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taylorboosh
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Registered: 3rd Apr 07
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quote:
Originally posted by BeetleGav
Coilovers make it more aesthetically pleasing too though
-40 mm would look ace
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Kyle T
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Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
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It's not going any lower... Maybe 5mm but nothing visually noticeable.
Agreed it will make my wheel arches look a bit nicer though 
Lotus Elise 111R
Impreza WRX STi
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taylorboosh
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Registered: 3rd Apr 07
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Why
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Simon_16v
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Registered: 14th Aug 06
Location: Yorkshire
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He says that now, but he'll change his mind eventually...I know he will
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Kyle T
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Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
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quote:
Originally posted by taylorboosh
Why
Because I'd buy a VW if I wanted to scrub my way around town and be scared of going round corners...
These just really don't like being lowered.
Lotus Elise 111R
Impreza WRX STi
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Kyle T
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Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
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When I get coilovers I'll wind them right down, take a photo for you lot then put it back up again
Lotus Elise 111R
Impreza WRX STi
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taylorboosh
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Registered: 3rd Apr 07
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Wasnt bardoors lowered a bit? Was lush... Surely it could go down a bit
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Kyle T
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Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
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Mine is 20mm lower than standard, could get away with more once I change for higher ball joints to correct the roll centre but I dont think it needs it (visually). Cleaning my arches is already a PITA
I think Barnshaw raised his after buying it... Could be wrong though.
Lotus Elise 111R
Impreza WRX STi
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chris_uk
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Registered: 8th Jul 03
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what kind of tyres are you using?
does your car have the ability to alter its geo? i.e camber, toe, bump, caster etc if so have you had a look at getting your geometry altered to something non standard?
[Edited on 28-07-2013 by chris_uk]
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Kyle T
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Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
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I'm using those Vredestein thingies. Had Contintenal Sport Contact 3's on when I got it and so far I prefer the Vreds, though to be fair to the conti's they were in the latter half of their lifespan when I used them!
Also had Uniroyal Rainsports on, total waste of money they were...
The car has got camber bolts front + rear, whiteline ALK to alter caster and I guess toe can be adjusted with the trackrod ends?
I had a specialist align everything according to Prodrive specs, but to be honest I'm looking to get a second opinion as I'm still getting quite poor straight line stability at speed which the settings are supposed to help dial out.
Both ARBs are adjustable too, front two ways and rear three ways.
As said previously I'll be looking at a bump correction kit to bring the roll centre back into line after the 20mm drop and it will be re-aligned once they go on.
Lotus Elise 111R
Impreza WRX STi
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chris_uk
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Registered: 8th Jul 03
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having that much adjustability on your ARBs will be a nightmare lol
if you toe out at the front to help turn in you will get less stability in a straight line, it will want to pull you either way. as with everything suspension related you have to make compromises.
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Kyle T
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Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
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Yeah indeed. So far the ARBs have stayed at the settings recommended by the specialist which is hard front and soft rear.
If I stiffened up the rear to "medium" I believe that would bring my oversteer transition sooner which may be beneficial on the track, but I'm happy with more understeer to stay safe on ze roads.
I think you're bang-on too with the straight line stability, so when I've added my next bits and I go in for another alignment I may ask for some less toe-out to try and aid the straight line stability. The backroads near me are very bumpy and it's quite off putting to suddenly be on the wrong side of the road when giving it some beans, I'll settle for a more lethargic turn in if needed.
It's all very interesting, I love the science behind it all but just can't do any real testing with my usual driving environment.
Lotus Elise 111R
Impreza WRX STi
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BarnshaW
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Registered: 25th Oct 06
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regarding lowered, when i got mine it was ridiculously low, tyre nearly sat in the arch and scrubbed on full lock,
when i got new coilovers fitted i had it about 40mm less then standard height and it was a compromise of looks and function, personally i would leave as is, you can get away without lowering these imo.
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BarnshaW
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Registered: 25th Oct 06
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also, i would be very interested to hear what AET are offering to get it to 400 torque, normally 400bhp on the 2.0 will normally only be about 360ft/b
btw you can go 400bhp on standard tmic, standard 550cc injectors, standard up-pipe and headers, can do it on just a turbo and maybe a FPR
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chris_uk
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Registered: 8th Jul 03
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the harder your suspension is the more the pull will show its head so if you can soften it up it would help mask that pulling.
the way arb's work in conjunction with your suspension is also interesting.. basically you want the ARBs to stop the roll of the car, the shocks to be relatively soft and then the springs to be hard enough to make the shocks return to the natural position. that way bumps in the road, potholes etc are absorbed by the suspension but when cornering the arb's atop the roll, kind of a best of both worlds.
basically the shock works in 2 ways, bump (which is compression) and rebound (which is the opposite), your bump wants to be soft enough to absorb the knock and the rebound stiff enough to get the shock back to the standard position fast enough to take the next knock. generally you work on a 40/60 stiffness split. (40 being the softer of the 2)
also when settings ARBs i do it a certain way, start in the middle for both and see what happens in a corner, if you get understeer you could either stiffen the rear or soften the front you will get the same result but which one do you choose? well its directly related to how the car is on exit. if your oversteering on exit stiffening the rear (although will help turn in, would make exit even worse)
i look at it as the front arb controls turn in and the rear arb controls what the exit is like.. if i get a little oversteer on exit i would soften the rear up for example...
but even after all thats been said, normally people get understeer because they drive wrong, not because the car is setup incorrectly.
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Kyle T
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Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
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quote:
Originally posted by BarnshaW
also, i would be very interested to hear what AET are offering to get it to 400 torque, normally 400bhp on the 2.0 will normally only be about 360ft/b
btw you can go 400bhp on standard tmic, standard 550cc injectors, standard up-pipe and headers, can do it on just a turbo and maybe a FPR
I didn't think much of it when he was listing parts tbh as my previous dyno runs have been close to a 1:1 ratio. I imagine that changes further up the scale though!
He explained same as you, could bolt a turbo on to make 400bhp but that would be wringing the neck out of the setup. With FMIC, injectors and or FPR and turbo it should be much more comfortable and maybe give head room for more. Turbo is the majority share of the cost but it sounded similar spec to the SC38 which comes in higher still.
I'd probably pick up ported headers/uppipe too to aid spool but that's all a long way away, need to get some track time and learn the car properly first.
Lotus Elise 111R
Impreza WRX STi
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Kyle T
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Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
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Will be illuminated red/amber to match the rest of the dash.
Analogue or Digital?
Analogue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_mcEYGWtBg
Digital: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xcc7uaspow
CS to decide, I'm torn
Lotus Elise 111R
Impreza WRX STi
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Simon_16v
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Registered: 14th Aug 06
Location: Yorkshire
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Analogue all the way, digital ones are alright for low light but if it's sunny you can struggle to read them
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chris_uk
Premium Member
Registered: 8th Jul 03
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i like the digital one personally.
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dan_m1les
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Registered: 8th May 06
Location: Burnham, Buckinghamshire
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Digital get my vote after watching the videos. Was set to say analogue before that!
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djgritt
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Registered: 1st Nov 07
Location: Dorset Drives: Focus ST / Hyundai i20N
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Analogue
Got a Pro-sport Boost Gauge in my vectra like the one in the video - decent piece of kit!
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