Kyle T
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Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
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Pretty crazy race, but Pirelli have got to respond to this surely.
In their defense, they wanted to change the construction for Canada but Lotus/FI pulled their rulebook out and said they couldn't unless everyone agreed to it.
Massa's was the scariest, on a different corner of a different track that could have been a wall.
It significantly influenced the race today not only with retirements/pitstops but also excessive SC time.
On a brighter note from my point of view, Mercedes were genuinely competitive on race pace, on a fast cornered circuit. Combined with Lewis' lap on saturday, they could be a real force now this season.
Lotus Elise 111R
Impreza WRX STi
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Rick Draper
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Registered: 10th Feb 01
Location: Cheshire
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quote:
Originally posted by Daveskater
quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
Everyone was soo blinded by their Mclaren love in and Mercs poor season that they forgot hed moved to one of the biggest names in motorsport.
The information available at the time was that Mercedes hadn't done well since they came back to F1 and McLaren had the fastest car last year. It would therefore be illogical to directly conclude from those facts that the very next year the tables would be turned. I was never one to say that he had ruined his career etc, but I won't call the people that did stupid. We never really know what's going to happen, so speculation can and will get proved wrong, and now I think we all know the current situation for this year so it's about time to move on imo. This has nothing to do with what colour t shirt I may happen to be sat in right now, but that I'm sick of hearing the same thing over and over again.
People forget that Merc are basically a team that have never produced a race winning car for longer than one season (in actual fact a race winning car for more than half a season), a squad that was formed from Honda, the best funded squad on the grid and that got them nowhere. At the minute Merc look very, very top heavy, lots of chiefs with there irons in the fire. Next seasons car will be the real answer as to where they are at.
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andys sxi
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Registered: 19th Jan 06
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I've not long got back from silverstone, what a day it's been, a very long one after leaving at 4 and getting back at 9 but worth it, gutted when Hamiltons tyre popped, but he did well to get 4th in the end.
April 08 feature car
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Rob E
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Registered: 1st Jan 06
Location: Madeley, Stafford....I want to live back in Wales!
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I think that's a bit short sighted. Brawn GP was the leftovers from Homda when they pulled the plug with barely enough money to go racing. When Mercedes bought them out the whole team/structure/development process of engineering a car will have dramatically changed. These are changes that are not seen overnight. Mercedes are a world leader in Motorsport and they will have design engineering processes bought over and adapted from various other forms of Motorsport they compete in and I truly believe they will be regulars on the podium over the next coming years.
McLaren's story of further failure has to be down to the resource shift internally. They have recently moved into the automotive industry and I really think this has hampered the motorsport team because they are no longer McLaren's single output. I also think they have lost their was since Ron Dennis stepped down as team principle.
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Kyle T
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Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
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Their worst driver lineup in years won't help either.
JB has always sucked at developing cars IMO.
Lotus Elise 111R
Impreza WRX STi
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Ben G
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Registered: 12th Jan 07
Location: Essex
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quote:
Originally posted by Daveskater
quote:
Originally posted by Ben G
Maybe because 99% of retards said lewis was a complete idiot for leaving mclaren. Funny how things work out.
And now people won't stop going on about it. That line was old 4 races ago. I'm not saying this as a fanboy, but change the record.
[Edited on 30-06-2013 by Daveskater]
I like you dave, but we're going to be having words if you pick on me again mate.
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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quote:
Originally posted by Kyle T
On a brighter note from my point of view, Mercedes were genuinely competitive on race pace, on a fast cornered circuit. Combined with Lewis' lap on saturday, they could be a real force now this season.
This was the best thing for me to come out of the race, before this weekend i fully expected a situation like Spain, I'd have taken 4th before Saturday, though it seems scant consolation now. Lewis was pulling away and i dont think it would have been at the expense of an extra stop over RB.
Its still extremely close however, i have a feeling RB might just have a slight edge. If Merc have turned around their tyre deg around it could really hot up the title race, they can do what no one else can and stick it in front of the RB's in quali, which takes away their plan of get pole, blitz the first couple of laps, break the DRS and control the race.
Got to feel for Lewis, i make that Singapore, Abu Dhabi, Brazil and now Silverstone that hes had decent control of before something out of his control has cost him the victory. If he'd have won yesterday the gap to Seb would have been 30 points, more than catchable. As it stands, he's just about hanging in there, I'd say Webber/Nico are the cut off point. Needs a win and ideally another DNF for Seb.
Not getting too excited yet but if they can repeat last weekend at the Ring, it will be very encouraging.
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spencer88
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Registered: 6th Oct 08
Location: cornwall
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The Force India looked quite good at points. Much better car than Mclaren at the moment....
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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The ironic thing being that Mclaren have a link with Force India and supply them with gearboxes/hydraulics as well as giving them operational and technical support 
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spencer88
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Registered: 6th Oct 08
Location: cornwall
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quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
The ironic thing being that Mclaren have a link with Force India and supply them with gearboxes/hydraulics as well as giving them operational and technical support
Yep, just seems Force Inia are putting together a better package which I don;t think anyone expected.
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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They might be hurt if they decide to make these tyres harder (safer) but they have certainly put together a really good car. They just seem to keep screwing up saturday, maybe Mclaren also share tactical advice with them.
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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In other news Pirelli have been allowed to run 2 unrestricted 3 day tyre tests from today.
[Edited on 01-07-2013 by JonnyJ]
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Dave
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Registered: 26th Feb 01
Location: Lancs
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It seems to me a bit unfair all the flak Pirelli are getting, their hands are pretty much tied by the FIA and teams.
Yes the tyres obviously shouldn't be falling apart like they are but that's possibly just an unfortunate side effect of making them less durable. Also how are they meant to put it right if they can't test mid season with current cars and teams vote down proposed changes?
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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They are tbf and like Kyle said, they wanted to change the construction for Canada, but too many teams like Lotus/FI/Ferrari have self interest in keeping the tyres as they are. Wonder how they'd have felt if Kimi/Alonso had suffered serious injuries as a result of blowouts.
In many ways, this needed to happen, the outrage is too big for them not to change anything now.
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/news/12475/8800689/Jenson-Button-s-odds-on-replacing-Mark-Webber-at-Red-Bull-have-been-slashed
Well, he'd be a like for like replacement and Seb would love it as he'd be zero threat to his title aspirations. Cant see it ever happening though.
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Daveskater
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Registered: 29th Apr 08
Location: Oxford, UK Drives: Jap wagon
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben G
quote:
Originally posted by Daveskater
quote:
Originally posted by Ben G
Maybe because 99% of retards said lewis was a complete idiot for leaving mclaren. Funny how things work out.
And now people won't stop going on about it. That line was old 4 races ago. I'm not saying this as a fanboy, but change the record.
[Edited on 30-06-2013 by Daveskater]
I like you dave, but we're going to be having words if you pick on me again mate.
Come at me, bro. I'll incapacitate you by plucking your eyebrows then make you eat them.
Numberwang!
Originally posted by AlunJ
I like you Dave, you are a man of men
Originally Whatapp'd by Neo
Dave's maybe capable of a drive-by cuddle
Look at my pictures
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Matt L
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Registered: 17th Apr 06
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be interesting to find out what caused all the failures, cynical side of me reackons pirelli changed the tyres to cause the failures so they can change the design like they wanted to
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt L
be interesting to find out what caused all the failures, cynical side of me reackons pirelli changed the tyres to cause the failures so they can change the design like they wanted to
I very much doubt that after the PR hit they've taken from it
They knew the tyres needed changing, but the politics of F1 got in the way and this is the result.
It must be hard for them, they got given a task of designing tyres that would degrade to a level to give 2/3 stop races but werent allowed to test them on the thing they'd be attached too. They had to guess the step in performance the cars would make, which is pretty impossible. I think they underestimated it and made them far too soft.
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Daveskater
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Registered: 29th Apr 08
Location: Oxford, UK Drives: Jap wagon
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Tbf they've made them slightly softer each year, but obviously gone a bit far now. Some teams are saying they should go back to the tried and tested 2012 design for the next race so we don't have a repeat of this weekend.
Numberwang!
Originally posted by AlunJ
I like you Dave, you are a man of men
Originally Whatapp'd by Neo
Dave's maybe capable of a drive-by cuddle
Look at my pictures
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cunningham
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Registered: 25th May 05
Location: Lochore, Fife
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Any PR is good PR everyone knows there road tyres share next to no similarities to the F1 tyre
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Kyle T
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Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
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All sorts of rumours flying around now, I love F1
Apparently McLaren and Sauber may have found traces of a kevlar belt in the failed tyres this weekend. Kevlar is the belt they wanted to revert to in time for Canada which Lotus/FI/Fez rejected.
More fuel for the conspiracy is weight, the steel belts which should be used this year are just under 2kg heavier across all four wheels... PaulDR was disqualified from quali due to being 1.5kg underweight.
Lotus Elise 111R
Impreza WRX STi
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Ben G
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Registered: 12th Jan 07
Location: Essex
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Why were there no steel belts in the tyres this weekend? They showed replays of previous replays where said belt was clearly visible.
Is this part of the new construction then? Seems like a backwards step if so. I don't get it.
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Ben G
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Registered: 12th Jan 07
Location: Essex
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Also, were the tyre failures definitrly caused by a sharp kerb? Theres a picture of it in the sun today and the fact all the failed tyres were on the left rear explains why, but it still doesn't negate the fact the tyres are far far too fragile.
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Kyle T
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Registered: 11th Sep 04
Location: Selby, North Yorkshire
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The steel belt SHOULD still have been there. Pirelli wanted to revert to Kevlar as it was last year, but Lotus/FI/Ferrari said "No, it'll give us a competitive handicap" which they're entitled to say.
Weirdly though, nobody seems to have seen a steel band from the ruined tyres this weekend, which is a bit suspect Admittantly Pirelli will have taken the vast majority of tyre debris back for analysis, so the bands probably got carted away with them.
The delaminations earlier in the year were an issue with the bonding process. The tread was literally falling off the steel band because of the bonding failing.
At Silverstone, the tyres weren't delaminating - they were exploding in a shower of shit.
The kerb(s) probably were the root cause, but it's unacceptable that the tyres failed in such a dramatic fashion. Rapid deflations such as Vettel in AbuDhabi 2011 are much safer, with the (then Kevlar) band keeping the tyre intact around the rim:
Lotus Elise 111R
Impreza WRX STi
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Ryan
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Registered: 23rd Jun 08
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Race drivers can drive the cars in the 'young drivers' test now....oops Merc
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