Teddy
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Registered: 19th Jul 04
Location: Northampton Drives: VW Bora 1.9TDi pd130
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul_J
Thing with this, your comparing a standard 106 Gti / VTS to a tuned (even exhaust and filter is tuning) corsa 1.6.
Sly_Sri has a 1.6 16v, stripped out running dbilas inlet manifold and sebring full system - probably running similar power to my 106 Gti - he's a good driver too, quick gear changes.
I just edged away from him in my 106 gti (with full leather interior so heavy). Since then though I've got a decat exhaust system and induction kit. So will probably leave him behind.
Typical examples.
106 Gti / VTS does roughly 16.4's standard - I managed a 16.1 (this is standard exhaust / everything!!!)
My mate with the same decat exhaust system and induction that I now have on his 106 Gti was getting 15.2-15.5's.
One problem is a lot of people don't compare standard for standard. A car with a exhaust system / filter is not standard. A car stripped is not standard.
Teddy - I don't know what your car is like, but I'll happily race you at PVS down the strip (If I still have a license). I have no idea what I'll get, anywhere in the 15's I'll be happy with - but I'm not too sure, my car doesn't feel that quick compared to my mates 106 Gti.
Another fact is - Driver skill. Someone may have a quicker car and be a shit driver, someone may have a slower car and be a good driver - I used to give people a good run for their money in my 1.2 16v.
But bottom line is, a standard (unstripped / un modified) Corsa Gsi is not beating a standard 106 gti / VTS in a straight line.
Paul J
[Edited on 16-05-2005 by Paul_J]
Would love to chap 
Be nice to do that actually
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulW
Paul_J
The 1/4 Time for GTI/VTS in Standard form that you said - I was running 16.4s in my GSi with full interior & only mod was an Induction Kit...
Yes but whats the quoted standard quarter time on a Corsa Gsi mate? 17's +
What I'm saying is the book figures say 16.4 - I managed a 16.1 (with heavy leather interior).
Same as Corsa Gsi standard quarter mile time is supposed to be what 17 flat? and you did a 16.4 - see what I'm saying 
Plus 'Just a filter?' ... my mate had 'just a filter' and exhaust and was down to 15.2's (knocked 1.2 secs off supposed 'standard quarter times).
Thing is - If Teddy had worded this post differently at the start it wouldn't of had this sort of debate. The fact he was saying a Gsi would easily beat a 106 gti / VTS and why hasn't anyone else ever beaten them in Gsi's etc... When his car isn't a standard car.
Sly_sri's car was quick - If I was caught off guard (out of power band) / shit driver he'd piss all over me (when my car was standard).
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PaulW
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Registered: 26th Jan 03
Location: Atherton, Greater Manchester
User status: Offline
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there was a completely standard GSi with just the rear seats removed, engine was bog-standard tho...
pulled a 15.9 which was damn impressive!
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Teddy
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Registered: 19th Jul 04
Location: Northampton Drives: VW Bora 1.9TDi pd130
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul_J
quote:
Originally posted by PaulW
Paul_J
The 1/4 Time for GTI/VTS in Standard form that you said - I was running 16.4s in my GSi with full interior & only mod was an Induction Kit...
Yes but whats the quoted standard quarter time on a Corsa Gsi mate? 17's +
What I'm saying is the book figures say 16.4 - I managed a 16.1 (with heavy leather interior).
Same as Corsa Gsi standard quarter mile time is supposed to be what 17 flat? and you did a 16.4 - see what I'm saying
Plus 'Just a filter?' ... my mate had 'just a filter' and exhaust and was down to 15.2's (knocked 1.2 secs off supposed 'standard quarter times).
Thing is - If Teddy had worded this post differently at the start it wouldn't of had this sort of debate. The fact he was saying a Gsi would easily beat a 106 gti / VTS and why hasn't anyone else ever beaten them in Gsi's etc... When his car isn't a standard car.
Sly_sri's car was quick - If I was caught off guard (out of power band) / shit driver he'd piss all over me (when my car was standard).
I didnt say "easy" at all - i said EQUAL .
That was for joke factor and people seem to think that im dismissing the fact that the Pug Lump is quicker - i know it is...
My engine is standard all i have done is taken a few kg out of it - evening things up a tad - that was the original point - that between THE powerplants there is no real diffence.
[Edited on 16-05-2005 by Teddy]
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Colin
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Registered: 4th Apr 02
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Well ive owned a GSi and id say its more on par with my mates old VTR(rr'd at 106bhp)! Another mate has a VTS and another with a GTi, there a good bit quicker than the GSi I owned! Ive also saw std gti's pull more than the claimed 120bhp so wouldnt count on that as benchmark power figure!!
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Teddy
Member
Registered: 19th Jul 04
Location: Northampton Drives: VW Bora 1.9TDi pd130
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Colin
Well ive owned a GSi and id say its more on par with my mates old VTR(rr'd at 106bhp)! Another mate has a VTS and another with a GTi, there a good bit quicker than the GSi I owned! Ive also saw std gti's pull more than the claimed 120bhp so wouldnt count on that as benchmark power figure!!
Oh thats another fact - which has been taken into consideration..
But PaulW's X16XE which in essnece is untouched is pulling 117bhp
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
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quote:
Originally posted by stuartmitchell
quote:
Originally posted by Paul_J
Teddy - I don't know what your car is like, but I'll happily race you at PVS down the strip (If I still have a license). I have no idea what I'll get, anywhere in the 15's I'll be happy with - but I'm not too sure, my car doesn't feel that quick compared to my mates 106 Gti.
[Edited on 16-05-2005 by Paul_J]
mate do you have the two prongs that come out the front of the block? If you do that means the block came with 130bhp standard, if it doesn't you get 120 bhp standard. This may explain the difference between you and your mates car!!!
Im yet to race a gsi on the strip but tbh unless its had some serious work done, or an XE dropped in I would be pretty confident about beating it off the line and all the way up the 1/4 mile 
Now that really is a myth ... I agree different models make different power - but both me and my mates are non 2 prong models... and there have been 2 prongers that have produced 130+ but 2 prongers that also haven't! and non 2 prongers that have produced 130 etc... Just luck.
My engine is a bit shagged tho - think it needs a new map sensor or something.
Teddy - Sounds cool mate. As I say if I still have my license I'll challenge anyone (OJC?) who wants a race. Note when I did the 16.1 it was earlier in the year when the track was pretty damp so wheel spin  - I have no idea what time's I'd get now though, doubt it'd be as quick as my mates.
Another mate of mine had decat magnex system, ecosse induction, 4-2-1 exhaust manifold and was only getting 15.5's - 15.6's...
Still good laugh  can't wait to go to pod again.
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broster
Premium Member
Registered: 6th Dec 02
Location: Drives: E39
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul_J
Thing is - If Teddy had worded this post differently at the start it wouldn't of had this sort of debate. The fact he was saying a Gsi would easily beat a 106 gti / VTS and why hasn't anyone else ever beaten them in Gsi's etc... When his car isn't a standard car.
he actually said his car has just his seats and dash, says to me its stripped! no engine mods on his eather, people just dont read properly and jump on the band wagon to say its all bull! also it was mentioned many times in the thread that his car is 60kg lighter than standard! wonder if people will pick up on what hes saying yet!?
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Skinz
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Registered: 15th May 03
User status: Offline
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BHP readouts count for jack, 80% of Rolling roads are overcalibrated anyway to give the customer satisfaction, and those that are calibrated correctly can overread by up to 10bhp for conditions etc not to mention transmission loss which is just a guess
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Ojc
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Registered: 14th Nov 00
Location: Reading: Drives : Clio 197
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Paul Joslin, I had a race with Sly_SRi and edged away from him in my standard X16XE.
How does this make you feel?
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broster
Premium Member
Registered: 6th Dec 02
Location: Drives: E39
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Skinz
BHP readouts count for jack, 80% of Rolling roads are overcalibrated anyway to give the customer satisfaction, and those that are calibrated correctly can overread by up to 10bhp for conditions etc not to mention transmission loss which is just a guess
agreed with that, i have been to a rolling road day where standard zetec s fiestas were pulling 120-125bhp! they then go on a different rolling road and get 100-110 bhp and say the lower reading is inacurate. my car is rr'd at 138bhp but has seen off corsas with more power more than once.
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Ojc
Paul Joslin, I had a race with Sly_SRi and edged away from him in my standard X16XE.
How does this make you feel?
Lets Race Boyo. 
Is there anywhere in Reading we can race (where I won't risk my license  )
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Skinz
Member
Registered: 15th May 03
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by broster
quote:
Originally posted by Skinz
BHP readouts count for jack, 80% of Rolling roads are overcalibrated anyway to give the customer satisfaction, and those that are calibrated correctly can overread by up to 10bhp for conditions etc not to mention transmission loss which is just a guess
agreed with that, i have been to a rolling road day where standard zetec s fiestas were pulling 120-125bhp! they then go on a different rolling road and get 100-110 bhp and say the lower reading is inacurate. my car is rr'd at 138bhp but has seen off corsas with more power more than once.
Proof is in the pudding
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Paul_J
Member
Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by broster
he actually said his car has just his seats and dash, says to me its stripped! no engine mods on his eather, people just dont read properly and jump on the band wagon to say its all bull! also it was mentioned many times in the thread that his car is 60kg lighter than standard! wonder if people will pick up on what hes saying yet!?
He edited his post.
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PaulW
Member
Registered: 26th Jan 03
Location: Atherton, Greater Manchester
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Skinz
quote:
Originally posted by broster
quote:
Originally posted by Skinz
BHP readouts count for jack, 80% of Rolling roads are overcalibrated anyway to give the customer satisfaction, and those that are calibrated correctly can overread by up to 10bhp for conditions etc not to mention transmission loss which is just a guess
agreed with that, i have been to a rolling road day where standard zetec s fiestas were pulling 120-125bhp! they then go on a different rolling road and get 100-110 bhp and say the lower reading is inacurate. my car is rr'd at 138bhp but has seen off corsas with more power more than once.
Proof is in the pudding
I'm still curious to get mine on a proper dyno, not a rolling road, but still 2 seperate rolling roads at 2 completely different places...
117.7bhp
117.4bhp
amazing how close both are if they are reading wrong...
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Teddy
Member
Registered: 19th Jul 04
Location: Northampton Drives: VW Bora 1.9TDi pd130
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by broster
quote:
Originally posted by Skinz
BHP readouts count for jack, 80% of Rolling roads are overcalibrated anyway to give the customer satisfaction, and those that are calibrated correctly can overread by up to 10bhp for conditions etc not to mention transmission loss which is just a guess
agreed with that, i have been to a rolling road day where standard zetec s fiestas were pulling 120-125bhp! they then go on a different rolling road and get 100-110 bhp and say the lower reading is inacurate. my car is rr'd at 138bhp but has seen off corsas with more power more than once.
No one has an "bhp" advantage anyhow....
Regardless the 11-15bhp difference wont make that much differnce....
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broster
Premium Member
Registered: 6th Dec 02
Location: Drives: E39
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Skinz
quote:
Originally posted by broster
quote:
Originally posted by Skinz
BHP readouts count for jack, 80% of Rolling roads are overcalibrated anyway to give the customer satisfaction, and those that are calibrated correctly can overread by up to 10bhp for conditions etc not to mention transmission loss which is just a guess
agreed with that, i have been to a rolling road day where standard zetec s fiestas were pulling 120-125bhp! they then go on a different rolling road and get 100-110 bhp and say the lower reading is inacurate. my car is rr'd at 138bhp but has seen off corsas with more power more than once.
Proof is in the pudding
indeed place where i have had alot of work done build some fast cars but not always the most poewerful out there, they just set it up so it can use the power properly. end of the day its how it drives that matters
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Ojc
Member
Registered: 14th Nov 00
Location: Reading: Drives : Clio 197
User status: Offline
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Paul Joslin, I do not wish to race you anywhere but Santa Pod.
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Skinz
Member
Registered: 15th May 03
User status: Offline
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If you live anywhere nr cheltenham take it to Powerstation, they are renowned for having one of the most accurate rolling raods
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broster
Premium Member
Registered: 6th Dec 02
Location: Drives: E39
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulW
quote:
Originally posted by Skinz
quote:
Originally posted by broster
quote:
Originally posted by Skinz
BHP readouts count for jack, 80% of Rolling roads are overcalibrated anyway to give the customer satisfaction, and those that are calibrated correctly can overread by up to 10bhp for conditions etc not to mention transmission loss which is just a guess
agreed with that, i have been to a rolling road day where standard zetec s fiestas were pulling 120-125bhp! they then go on a different rolling road and get 100-110 bhp and say the lower reading is inacurate. my car is rr'd at 138bhp but has seen off corsas with more power more than once.
Proof is in the pudding
I'm still curious to get mine on a proper dyno, not a rolling road, but still 2 seperate rolling roads at 2 completely different places...
117.7bhp
117.4bhp
amazing how close both are if they are reading wrong...
i love the way some rolling road places put decimal places on the results lol! would be interesting to compare your car to mine and teddys paul.
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Skinz
Member
Registered: 15th May 03
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Teddy
quote:
Originally posted by broster
quote:
Originally posted by Skinz
BHP readouts count for jack, 80% of Rolling roads are overcalibrated anyway to give the customer satisfaction, and those that are calibrated correctly can overread by up to 10bhp for conditions etc not to mention transmission loss which is just a guess
yes but gearing and engine characteristics will, for instance the gti hits peak bjp at anything above 6800rpm which mean it will keep pulling well into the redline where the corsa will start losing power.
no way a standard stripped corsa gsi will keep with one, only a stripped gsi with a torque tube and a few other mods will get close
agreed with that, i have been to a rolling road day where standard zetec s fiestas were pulling 120-125bhp! they then go on a different rolling road and get 100-110 bhp and say the lower reading is inacurate. my car is rr'd at 138bhp but has seen off corsas with more power more than once.
No one has an "bhp" advantage anyhow....
Regardless the 11-15bhp difference wont make that much differnce....
[Edited on 16-05-2005 by Skinz]
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Teddy
Member
Registered: 19th Jul 04
Location: Northampton Drives: VW Bora 1.9TDi pd130
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulW
quote:
Originally posted by Skinz
quote:
Originally posted by broster
quote:
Originally posted by Skinz
BHP readouts count for jack, 80% of Rolling roads are overcalibrated anyway to give the customer satisfaction, and those that are calibrated correctly can overread by up to 10bhp for conditions etc not to mention transmission loss which is just a guess
agreed with that, i have been to a rolling road day where standard zetec s fiestas were pulling 120-125bhp! they then go on a different rolling road and get 100-110 bhp and say the lower reading is inacurate. my car is rr'd at 138bhp but has seen off corsas with more power more than once.
Proof is in the pudding
I'm still curious to get mine on a proper dyno, not a rolling road, but still 2 seperate rolling roads at 2 completely different places...
117.7bhp
117.4bhp
amazing how close both are if they are reading wrong...
Out of interest what was your torque figure?
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Gsi_Ire
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Registered: 9th Aug 04
Location: Republic of Ireland
User status: Offline
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ok, i have completely skipped most of this thread, and this is just my cent (being some1 who owns both a gsi and vts)
the vts would corner better and faster than the corsa, and in a straight line it would defo seem to be alot quicker 0 - 50 and 80+
but thats just my 2 cent worth
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Paul_J
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Registered: 6th Jun 02
Location: London
User status: Offline
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Yeh. This is the other problem is that there are some X16XE's making more power than they should... Some old shagged Gsi engine's making less power than they should... Some Gti's making 130 bhp... some making 120 bhp standard.
It's all a joke really to compare. At the end of the day - We shouldn't all get so hung up on stats, who'ever wins the races wins the races.
Teddy knows what he beat - and thus should leave it as that.
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Skinz
Member
Registered: 15th May 03
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Teddy
quote:
Originally posted by broster
quote:
Originally posted by Skinz
BHP readouts count for jack, 80% of Rolling roads are overcalibrated anyway to give the customer satisfaction, and those that are calibrated correctly can overread by up to 10bhp for conditions etc not to mention transmission loss which is just a guess
agreed with that, i have been to a rolling road day where standard zetec s fiestas were pulling 120-125bhp! they then go on a different rolling road and get 100-110 bhp and say the lower reading is inacurate. my car is rr'd at 138bhp but has seen off corsas with more power more than once.
No one has an "bhp" advantage anyhow....
Regardless the 11-15bhp difference wont make that much differnce....
yes but gearing and engine characteristics will, for instance the gti hits peak bhp at anything above 6800rpm which mean it will keep pulling well into the redline where the corsa will start losing power.
no way a standard stripped corsa gsi will keep with one, only a stripped gsi with a torque tube and a few other mods will get close
[Edited on 16-05-2005 by Skinz]
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