K2 GTi
Member
Registered: 21st Oct 04
User status: Offline
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Ive already opened a new bank account, well applied, and once I get that everything will go into that one. I'm telling them i'm not paying it, and simply if i'm made to then im going to be claiming it back anyway.
Doubt I'll get away with them reversing the charges tomorrow though. 
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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why not, they are illegal?
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Ally
Member
Registered: 2nd Jul 03
Location: Pontypool Drives: a Skoda
User status: Offline
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Your Address
Banks Address
30/01/07
Dear Sir/Madam
Penalty & unfair charges – request for refund for Account - xxxxxxx SC – xxxxxx
0n 5 April 2006 the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) announced that default charges which are set at more than £12 will be presumed to be unfair and unenforceable in terms of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (SI. 1999/2083). Charges above this sum will be subject to legal action by the OFT (press release 68/06 – online here: http://www.oft.gov.uk/News/Press+releases/2006/68-06.htm).
The OFT stated that a charge is not fair simply because it is below this sum, and I believe that a reasonable charge would be 50 pence for the reasons set out below. Please refund my charges as a matter of urgency.
I would respectfully submit that if your organisation does not agree to immediately refund all unfair charges applied to my account, it will not meet the ‘fit and proper person’ test to hold a consumer credit licence under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In that eventuality, I will submit a 1974 Act complaint to the OFT.
Separately, I am of the view that your charges represent a penalty and are therefore irrecoverable at common law. In the Scottish case of Castaneda and Others v. Clydebank Engineering and Shipbuilding Co., Ltd. (1904) 12 SLT 498 the House of Lords held that a contractual party can only recover damages for actual or liquidated losses incurred from a breach of contract. This is also the position in English law: Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79.
Your charges do not reflect any actual loss, instead they appear to represent a lucrative profit-making scheme. In particular, charges were applied after I entered into a transaction(s) without sufficient funds in my account. However, payment was declined by you, and therefore, actual loss is the cost of automatically sending me a computer generated letter. I would respectfully submit that is valued at no more than 50 pence.
UK banks have recently given evidence to the House of Commons Treasury Committee on how bank charges are calculated: "The costs are going to pay for all the people we have who pursue debt, collect debt, speak to customers and chase payments. The way these charges are arrived at is by taking these total costs and making some assumptions about the volume that is going to come through to arrive at the individual charges" (2nd report, 25 January 2005, paragraph 50 – online here: http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200405/cmselect/cmtreasy/274/27405.htm).
Accordingly, the charges applied to my account are not a reasonable pre-estimate of the bank’s loss in relation to my account. No-one has had to look at my account or telephone me. No one has had to collect anything. Your charges would appear to represent a device to recover global losses (for example, loan defaulters, bad debt write off, including commercial lending in, and outwith, the UK).
Please refund all charges applied to my account within the next 7 days. I reserve the right to commence court proceedings without any further notice, and to seek an additional award for distress and inconvenience, together with legal expenses.
Yours faithfully
Your name
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Dean_W
Member
Registered: 13th Dec 05
Location: Downham Market, Norfolk
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
just refuse to pay it?
You can't. they'll tak eit anyway. Banks have you by the balls in that sense.
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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yeah i know but k2gti is saying they are asking for payment
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Half Pint
Member
Registered: 25th Mar 02
User status: Offline
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well if every body keeps vthis up then we are going to end up having to pay the bank for out accounts like you do in europe.
if you fred the t's & c's they you'll see theat the cost is justified...
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K2 GTi
Member
Registered: 21st Oct 04
User status: Offline
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I cant send the letter untill I've paid the charges, right? So pissed off though, because If I get charged and have to pay on the 1st, I won't have enough in my account to cover my DD's that will come out the same day, so it'll just be one big circle.
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Half Pint
Member
Registered: 25th Mar 02
User status: Offline
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to be honest i've never been charged, maybe i know how to manage my finances
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K2 GTi
Member
Registered: 21st Oct 04
User status: Offline
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Also, wouldI be able to send that letter to Natwest? I closed my account with them after paying back £200 charges, but will they credit it me back to a closed account? Or send cheque?
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Jay
Member
Registered: 26th Sep 04
Location: Liverpool
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Ally
Ta 
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mav
Member
Registered: 19th Jun 01
Location: Scotland
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Half Pint
if you reda the t's & c's they you'll see theat the cost is justified...
What they are justified to charge ypu £30 for going 10p over your limit?
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Ally
Member
Registered: 2nd Jul 03
Location: Pontypool Drives: a Skoda
User status: Offline
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Mav i think they are justified to charge £5, not £35
I know blah blah look after your money buy fck it, high charge, legal loop hole, then yes i am going to piss and moan till i get all my money back and learn not to do it again because i can't be arsed with all this hassle 
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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its cant be justified, justification would be to provide information into how exactly it costs them £30 to handle it
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Ally
Member
Registered: 2nd Jul 03
Location: Pontypool Drives: a Skoda
User status: Offline
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Exactly, so they are justified for a £5 charge, not a £35 charge
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mav
Member
Registered: 19th Jun 01
Location: Scotland
User status: Offline
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Exactly, a nominal fee of £5-£10 say but £30 is a joke...
Also if they decide not to pay it as you don't have funds in your account they charge you £39 for this pleasure (halifax) 
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Cosmo
Member
Registered: 29th Mar 01
Location: Im the real one!
User status: Offline
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£4.something is what it costs
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Twiggy
Member
Registered: 15th Oct 04
User status: Offline
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Can i just point out that you signed terms and conditions saying the bank will charge you £X for going over your agreed overdraught. you then go over and the bank charges you....
Dont see what the fuss is about!
If you think the banks charges are excessive dont open an account...
End of the day banks and a PROFIT making company
[Edited on 17-02-2007 by Twiggy]
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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banks are not meant to be a profit making actually 
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Cosmo
Member
Registered: 29th Mar 01
Location: Im the real one!
User status: Offline
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FFS, they are imposing penalty charges, which is ILLEGAL. Anything over what it costs them in admin fees is classed as this, so you are entitled to the money back.
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Carl
Member
Registered: 9th May 04
Location: Jimmy Bennett's la la land.
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Twiggy
Can i just point out that you signed terms and conditions saying the bank will charge you £X for going over your agreed overdraught. you then go over and the bank charges you....
Dont see what the fuss is about!
If you think the banks charges are excessive dont open an account...
End of the day banks and a PROFIT making company
[Edited on 17-02-2007 by Twiggy]
good one, you may have noticed all banks have rediculious charges so its not like there is an option, therefore they are taking the piss. Its not as simple as "dont open account" this is the real world where its pretty much impossible to not have a bank account. 
Everyone who writes a letter to them to complain should include an invoice in the letter for £30 costs for the pleaseure of you sending them the letter, that would be fair.
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Twiggy
Member
Registered: 15th Oct 04
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
FFS, they are imposing penalty charges, which is ILLEGAL. Anything over what it costs them in admin fees is classed as this, so you are entitled to the money back.
You have signed a legal doc saying you accept charges for XYZ, how is it not legal?
Does not matter how much it costs...
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Twiggy
Member
Registered: 15th Oct 04
User status: Offline
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Its not as simple as "dont open account" this is the real world where its pretty much impossible to not have a bank account.
Errr ok then dont go overdrawn!
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Cosmo
Member
Registered: 29th Mar 01
Location: Im the real one!
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Twiggy
You have signed a legal doc saying you accept charges for XYZ, how is it not legal?
Does not matter how much it costs...
Becasue the law is Banks cannot impose Penalty Charges, they can claim to cover their admin charges (£5ish) but that is it.
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Cosmo
Member
Registered: 29th Mar 01
Location: Im the real one!
User status: Offline
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Its like me making you sign a contract and somewhere in it I say I can kill you if I wish....wouldnt mean it was all legal and fine for me to do so.
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Steve
Premium Member
Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
User status: Offline
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contracts dont override law
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