Tiger
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Mercedes crowned back to back constructors champions after raikonnen gets 30 second penalty sending him back to 8th place on grid at today's race.
[Edited on 11-10-2015 by Tiger]
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Kyle T
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GG Mercedes, GG
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Ben G
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Well thats a massive anti climax. Stupid Finnish prick ruining the celebrations.
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Ellis
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I was proper raging when Raikkonen blootered into Bottas. Ruined my day. Nevertheless, happy to Perez make it onto the podium.
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Rick Draper
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quote:
Originally posted by Marc
Button finishes above Alonso with an inferior engine.
Just saying.
Thought they only ran the new engine in one practice to see how it performed and then changed it again for the race back to a older unit?
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Ellis
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"FIA rule customer power units to be same specification as works team"
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/10028097/fia-rule-customer-power-units-to-be-same-specification-as-works-team
Can't say I'm surprised this rule change has been made  clever move from Bernie/FIA.
So RBR/TR would have to get the most up-to-date works specification engine from Ferrari or Mercedes for the 2016 season under the new sporting regulations.
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Steve
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If they agree to supply them, which they have said no so far, surely this is even more likely to make them refuse
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Steve
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Why were none of these rule changes made when red bull were winning everything?
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Ellis
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It's all knee-jerk rule changes to suit the FOM business disguised as having come purely from the FIA.
It's FOM flexing their muscles in the face of the most commanding teams IMO. Ferrari threaten to provide lesser and older customer engines which FOM didn't agree with - only way around it for them was to introduce a technical regulation change to once again remind the grid who is boss. It couldn't be arranged by an agreement so rules were changed.
The impact of this is mostly positive in my eyes.
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Ben G
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It's already been confirmed Vettel is Bernies love child, hence everything was fine when Red Bull were winning all the time.
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Ben G
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How is it positive? Mercedes already allow their customers to have the most up to date engines as far as i'm aware. It's only Ferrari who offload the old crap to other teams.
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Steve
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but Mercedes and Ferrari can still refuse to supply them with any engines at all...
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Steve
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positive probably because he hates niggers
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Kyle T
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben G
How is it positive? Mercedes already allow their customers to have the most up to date engines as far as i'm aware. It's only Ferrari who offload the old crap to other teams.
Williams, FI and Co still don't have the Monza spec upgrade from Merc.
Lotus Elise 111R
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Dave
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The problem F1 has now is that all its engine suppliers are also teams,assuming Renault take over Lotus again.
Therefore why should Ferrari, for example, spend millions designing and developing an engine, then hand that over to a rival team (RBR) admittedly at a cost, for that team to potentially go and beat them? It also means Red Bull can concentrate purely on the car from a development point of view. Has there ever been a Ferrari powered car that has won the title other than in a Ferrari chassis?
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Ben G
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quote:
Originally posted by Kyle T
quote:
Originally posted by Ben G
How is it positive? Mercedes already allow their customers to have the most up to date engines as far as i'm aware. It's only Ferrari who offload the old crap to other teams.
Williams, FI and Co still don't have the Monza spec upgrade from Merc.
Oh ok, I stand corrected. I was under the impression they all received the upgrade.
They have a 2015 engine anyway. Ferrari would only offer a 2014 one, like they do to Sauber.
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Rick Draper
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben G
quote:
Originally posted by Kyle T
quote:
Originally posted by Ben G
How is it positive? Mercedes already allow their customers to have the most up to date engines as far as i'm aware. It's only Ferrari who offload the old crap to other teams.
Williams, FI and Co still don't have the Monza spec upgrade from Merc.
Oh ok, I stand corrected. I was under the impression they all received the upgrade.
They have a 2015 engine anyway. Ferrari would only offer a 2014 one, like they do to Sauber.
Sauber have a 2015 engine iirc. Only Marussa have a 2014 engine.
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Ellis
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Why do I think the new engine regulation is a positive? Because I believe it will level the playing field so to speak. Look at GP2 for example, all teams are using a series homologated V8 and the racing there is great. In season development appears to have been even further pegged back which is the negative part of the update. If I was speaking on behalf of a works team I'm pretty sure my opinion would be different, but as a fan, I believe it will improve the sport for the viewer.
F1 has brought this situation upon itself by introducing a woefully complex and expensive engine formula which I believe has scared engine manufacturers away. I agree it is the technology we will see in the future as we demand road cars to become more efficient, but at the peak of motorsport, I feel it is unnecessary. I don't care if a F1 car can do grand prix duration on 100kg of fuel - even Bernie concedes the fans couldn't give a flying fuck about the efficiency of the engines.
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Rob_Quads
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Its going to be an interesting situation now - lets say there is a duff engine upgrade, now they are going to have to give it to the other teams before its been tested and if its duff, its duff and the other team is going to have to live with it - it 'could' mean that they have to take an engine penalty, which I guess will then mean that the buyers of engines will put extra clauses in their contracts about this which then will result in the prices go the engines going up for them to cover them selves.
I understand the reasons but i don't agree with them. They sign a contract for a certain engine, which is what they get. If they want exactly the same engine they sign a deal such.
If anything I can see this decreasing the number of customer engines out there because they are not going to want 6 other cars all competing head to head with them selves if they have the best engine.
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Ellis
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Engine design improvements solely for the purpose of performance gain are [currently] prohibited for the 2016 season.
As it stands, engine manufacturers are required to have their design fully completed just after pre-season testing 2016. In theory then, and assuming there are no loopholes to exploit, the engine will remain the same throughout the season unless changes are made for reliability or safety.
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Rob_Quads
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quote:
Originally posted by Ellis
In theory then, and assuming there are no loopholes to exploit, the engine will remain the same throughout the season unless changes are made for reliability or safety.
This is F1 we are talking about. Of course they will find things that need changing for reliability which just happens to improve the performance. F1 in the last few years has been all about pushing the rules to the absolute limit and exploiting any badly phrased, open to interoperation rule they can
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Ellis
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I'm just pointing out that the token development system would be abolished if the proposed changes to the technical regulations are enforced for 2016. ALL components of the engine unit would be frozen and be deemed non-modifiable.
I'm not denying they won't find loopholes, of course they will, I do it myself most days, looking for ways round engineering legislation and guidance to save money or improve schedule.
The obvious area open to interpretation is a modification for reliability and/or safety. The most clever individuals in the paddock can surely persuade a performance modification through as being for reliability purposes.
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Rob_Quads
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I can't see the manufacturers agreeing to it anyway. McLaren know they have so much work to do they are not going to suddenly catch up over the winter. They are going to need all of next year if they want to be anywhere near fighting for the podium.
Also the lack of development means the manufacturers can make less progress which means less to make it into mainstream which for them is not what they want.
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Dom
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quote:
Originally posted by Ellis
"FIA rule customer power units to be same specification as works team"
It's not completely black and white as the regs allow for changes to made as long as there is complete agreement from all the teams. Which is why it's currently rumoured STR will be running a '15 Ferrari engine along with Manor.
There also appears to be the possibility (can't see anything in the regs that would explicitly rule this out) of an engine manufacturer holding back 2016 upgrades/development before homologation and then dumping all of their tokens on the upgrades at the start of the season (Mercedes are already doing something similar with their Monza spec).
Customers would still be receiving 2016 engines but without any of the benefits.
It's a mess whatever way you look at it.
quote:
Originally posted by Ellis
I'm just pointing out that the token development system would be abolished if the proposed changes to the technical regulations are enforced for 2016. ALL components of the engine unit would be frozen and be deemed non-modifiable.
In which case you likely end up with another Ferrari-esque era of domination in what is now an engine spec series.
Aero alone won't close the gaps created by the difference in engine performance and if it could be, then it'd likely be open to the front running team(s) which would then put everyone back to 'square one'.
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djgritt
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quote:
Originally posted by Dom
Which is why it's currently rumoured STR will be running a '15 Ferrari engine along with Manor.
Manor are going to be using 2016 Spec Mercedes units.
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