RichR
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Registered: 17th Oct 01
Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
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You doing this at home or in Brum? I'm guessing home. If you need anything or any other suppleis, let me know and I'll see what I can lay my hands on for you
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ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
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I made the mould at home and doing the layup in Brum. Then fitting the part back at home again. I need the massive oven and vac pump that's in Brum to do this - bit of a pain lugging the stuff about but hey ho.
Cheers, I'll give you a shout if I do end up needing stuff, think I've got most of it though 
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ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
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I fail. I used polyester resin for the mould which can't go in the oven for the prepreg carbon. I'll have to wet lay it...
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Tomnova16
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Registered: 21st Jan 06
Location: Gerrards Cross Drives: Porsche 911
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wet lay carbon yeah
does it mean you have to use different stuff 
http://www.lemass.co.uk/ for all your automotive/bodyshop needs
Located in Chalfont st Peter
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ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
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Yep. Means I have to use the fabric and wet it out with some epoxy resin. Risk is the weave might not be as straight and the part might be heavier but my friend who's advising me thinks I'll be able to do it...
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John G
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Registered: 18th Jul 05
Location: Wirral, Merseyside
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Composites talk lee 
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ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
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Also means I'll have to buy my own carbon and not steal hand me downs. This roof is verging on costing me £50 
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Leighton
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Registered: 21st Feb 01
Location: Liverpool
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are you going to vacuum bag it now?
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ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
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Yep. Going to wet lay it and vac bag it to de-bulk it. That will reduce the excess resin and remove te air bubbles for those who wantto know
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Leighton
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Registered: 21st Feb 01
Location: Liverpool
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and make it stronger because there is no excess resin 
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John G
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Registered: 18th Jul 05
Location: Wirral, Merseyside
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Is that not pre-preged carbon sheets? what are you using to bag the job? once we lay up the jobs onto the mould be bag carbon with solid halar, then straight to 2layers of thin breather then into your bag, how many valves you going to be using? as the bags pretty big, i would have said 3 to 4 valves for when its in the oven to get and even pull
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ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
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The original plan was to use prepreg stuff but the mould I made wasn't up to the job as I used polyester resin which can't take the temp of the oven needed...
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ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
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Sooo. I think i'll do a single ply of 650 grams per meter carbon and wet lay it using polyester resin onto a plyester gel coat. This will probs only work with all the other boring shit I've been chatting about.
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Mattb
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Registered: 2nd Feb 03
Location: Under your sisters bed
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Just bloody get on with it edwardo!!!!!!!
 cant belive stuffs getting done to the corsa! top stuff dude!
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ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
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I'll get it done. Are congratulations in order for you yet?
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pow
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Registered: 11th Sep 06
Location: Hazlemere, Buckinghamshire
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 as fuck
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RichR
Premium Member
Registered: 17th Oct 01
Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
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quote:
Originally posted by John G
Composites talk lee
I know my composites, what you were syaing didn't make sense - maybe it was just how you typed it or how I read it but it doesn't make sense.
This
quote:
enough bag into the areas it will be a shit job.
This doesn't make sense, if there wasn't enough bag, then it would just pull away at the edges and not form a vacuum; how do you get more bag into areas when its flat sheet?
and this
quote:
im not in wet lay up, im in composites as a laminator but carbon is my prefered material, then Epoxy, Phenolic is just a twat!
I'm assuming the latter actually means that you use both Phenolic Pre Preg and Epoxy Pre preg; but how can Carbon alone be your prefered material? Surely you mean either as a pre-preg or you prefer it to glass pre preg? But to prefer carbon to epoxy doesn't make sense, they're two parts of the same end product surely?
I'm not having a dig, it just doesn't make sense.
Also, what do you work as? What are you producing? I find it all really interesting, At work, we mainly hand lay everything, little bit of vacuum bagging but we're moving over to more closed mould resin infusion/RTM on smaller components first then on from there. I've been over to the JEC show in Paris a few times which is a composite geeks heaven.
I also do quite a bit in my own time working with higher tech composites, carbons, kevlars, pre preg and wet lay and my best mate runs CarbonMods
[Edited on 10-05-2010 by LiVe LeE]
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ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
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Lee: Do you know if data is available to tell you how thick a single ply of fabric would be after it has been wetted out? It was fairly easy with the pre-preg as we've got samples of it all to measure along with test data for strength. I've been chatting to a mate of mine who suggested that I should try a single ply of 650g/m^2 2x2 twill. I'm aiming for a 0.75mm thick panel and I'm going to try and blag some epoxy resin, otherwise it will have to be the polyester again...
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RichR
Premium Member
Registered: 17th Oct 01
Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
User status: Offline
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hang on
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RichR
Premium Member
Registered: 17th Oct 01
Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
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Ply Thickness = (( Mf/3072)*((2.56/(Mf/Mt))-1.36)
Where Mf = your Fibre mass per m2 i.e. if your using 600gsm cloth, then input 600 and Mt = the Total Mass fo the panel per m2 (Fibre + Matrix[Resin]) ie 600gsm + Resin at 1.33:1 = 1398grams.
All units are in mm and the weights are all in grams
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3CorsaMeal
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Registered: 11th Apr 02
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is carbon fibre sprayed with laquer afterwards or do you polish up the resin part of it?
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RichR
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Registered: 17th Oct 01
Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
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worked example using CSM600 and 0.33Wf (2:1)gives
Mf = 600
Mt = 1800
([600/3072]*[(2.56/(600/1800))-1.36]) = 1.23mm
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RichR
Premium Member
Registered: 17th Oct 01
Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by 3CorsaMeal
is carbon fibre sprayed with laquer afterwards or do you polish up the resin part of it?
you shouldn't need to do anything as it is being applied to a female mould. In reality, there probably would be a bit of buffing to do, but shouldn't need lacquering.
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Stu_22
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Registered: 25th Mar 02
Location: Luton
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Is this a one off or will you be able to make a few of them?
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ed
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Registered: 10th Sep 03
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Cheers for that Lee.
For wet layup I've been advised to use a thin layer of gel coat otherwise I might not get it out of the mould. If the mould was production quality then it would come out with a proper finish, as it's a shed quality mould it might need a wet sand and a polish. As I intend on lacquering it anyway it's going to get a sand down before hand as I think there will be a few not so good parts.
There's been a development. I think I can cure the prepreg at 80 degrees, need to try and find out the maximum working temp of this resin. D'oh...
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