Jambo
Member
Registered: 8th Sep 01
Location: Maidenhead, Drives: VXR Arctic
User status: Offline
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Astra VXR is completely different to the experience of driving a mk4, for a start its refined. Let alone feedback throught steering pedals and just a general idea its not made out of cheese string.
Many people on here have owned them and sold them on after not much ownership. They are expensive for what they are. People get defensive over their cars and want to stand up for them etc which is fine. But asking for opinions will get you a spectrum of replies. Most of the negative ones have come from people who have actually owned them though. Worth baring in mind!
Its all horses for courses at the end of the day as mentioned, i don't like the civic either so didnt reccomend one of those  But ill say it again, get one it will bore you to tears or you will be happy with it untill you drive a proper car (what happened to me)
If you really want an astra save yourself £2/3k and get a coupe. Nicer interior (dependant on spec obv) and cheaper for the same thing and it might ride a bit better too
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Graham88
Member
Registered: 16th Apr 07
Location: South East Kent Drives: E46 M3
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Jambo
quote:
Originally posted by Graham88
I wouldn't say they handle badly tbh. My mates has a diff, anti roll bars, springs etc and it was awesome fun to drive
The problem with the handling is not the amount of grip and stability. Bar the wallowyness and understeer and the fact it felt like it was made of jelly its the pure fact there is no feedback from any of the controls. Its all electronic and badly weighted/assisted. It feels like your playing sega rally in Megabowl but without the fun element.
Fair enough, I only drove it for a short period and mostly on straight roads to feel the power more than anything as I was thinking about a turbo car at the time. But if you have owned one I can see that being a good evaluation of the car.
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Nick-S
Member
Registered: 3rd Mar 04
Location: Leigh. Drives: RS Megane 230 F1 Team R26
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Jambo
Astra VXR is completely different to the experience of driving a mk4, for a start its refined. Let alone feedback throught steering pedals and just a general idea its not made out of cheese string.
that may well be so but the chassis are almost identical in layout.
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Jambo
Member
Registered: 8th Sep 01
Location: Maidenhead, Drives: VXR Arctic
User status: Offline
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but that has nothing to do with the suspension, the geomatry, the different wheels, the electric steering the electric pedals which is the hole reason they are turd.
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Pete_vxl
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Registered: 24th Nov 06
Location: Lochgelly, Fife
User status: Offline
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it just isnt rewarding, is it?
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Nick-S
Member
Registered: 3rd Mar 04
Location: Leigh. Drives: RS Megane 230 F1 Team R26
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Jambo
but that has nothing to do with the suspension, the geomatry, the different wheels, the electric steering the electric pedals which is the hole reason they are turd.
i fully understand that, i know just how little feed back they have, but some people just to say, "they dont handle" when they can be made to handle very well indeed.
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Ash_EP3
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Registered: 15th May 07
Location: Melksham, Wiltshire
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Gareth F
Plenty of opinions here then.
Thanks for every ones input, I think ill spend my money on a CTR, think i need something else other than a vauxhall (on my third now)
The main things I want from a car:
Comfort - reasonably comfortable Type R seats do hold you nicely, however ride is a little hard.
Mpg when not booting it - you'll be looking @ around 30mpg not booting sub 20mpg when you are!
Good handling (for the little spirited driving i do) - handles well and you can get a FRSU (fast road setup) for £250 which will transform it completely!
Visibility for parking - fairly easy to park, had no problems with mine... apart from the turning circle!
I should have stated in the first post civic opinions are needed too.
Comments added, oh and good choice 
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Jambo
Member
Registered: 8th Sep 01
Location: Maidenhead, Drives: VXR Arctic
User status: Offline
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On a more posotive note, there was a thread a while back and someone posted a black Gsi with 18" Astra VXR wheels on it and it looked fucking gorgeous!
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Fad
Member
Registered: 1st Feb 01
Location: Dartford Kent Drives: 330cd
User status: Offline
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How about on them flat face Omega MV6 rims 
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scoob
Premium Member
Registered: 16th Oct 03
Location: Beverley, E Riding of Yorkshire
User status: Offline
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i sold mine after 2 months due to falling asleep while driving it 
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frostyD
Member
Registered: 16th Mar 07
User status: Offline
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What did you have done to yours ?
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scoob
Premium Member
Registered: 16th Oct 03
Location: Beverley, E Riding of Yorkshire
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by frostyD
What did you have done to yours ?
lowerd on coilovers full exshaust system, pre cat removed, remap, tbh its was maybe comming from a 500bhp rx7 that did it 
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ChrisBoom
Member
Registered: 6th Dec 06
Location: Highland
User status: Offline
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Thought about an Astra SRI Turbo? Way cheaper to buy and insure. Interior lets them down though 
Would like an astra coupe, but fuck me they are ugly from the back.
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Nic Barnes
Member
Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
User status: Offline
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impreza would have been the wise choice.
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Rob B
Member
Registered: 8th Jan 04
Location: Area Motorsport Drives: Race EP3
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by steven_r2008
quote:
Originally posted by Rob B
Erm, whilst some things you've said i agree with. This is a comparison between a Astra Gsi and a CTR. The CTR has independant rear suspension, a well thought out MacPherson strut front setup. Which means with minimal mods you can gain alot of camber, can you even get camber on the back of a Astra? Without shims...
If you want a good handling car then double wishbone all round is the way to go like the DC2 or EK9.
camber on rear + wet roads = spin  . i know this as my mate had a civic, lowered it, failed to get the camber arms that you need to buy additionaly so you don't get camber, bit of enthusiastic driving with my sat on his bumper in the corsa, going round a rather large island... low and behold the civic spun, corsa stayed planted . . . until i noticed i had my mate facing me, at which point (rather stupidly) my brakes went on and back end came round  . fortunately i knew what to do so corrected it and managed to avoid a civic+corsa crash child.
it all depends on what kind of delivery you like. personally i like to feel the power of the car and not sit there wondering when it is going to kick in, hence why i would prefer the GSi, plus the fact i don't cross the 'ring' everyday to get to work, therefore prefer not to push my car beyond its limits around corners on a public road.
as people say, its completely down to personal preference and no matter what half the people say in this thread, whatever car you were more swayed to before starting this thread is more than likely going to be the car you get 
Ok, you obviously know alot about vehicle dyanmic's and what would make a car "spin" in a corner.
Firstly, camber wet or dry will improve cornering stability. When you go round a bend, your suspension compresses creating camber, as the top of the wheel tucks in, it usually will improve the contact patch on the road. More camber = more contact patch when cornering.
Macpherson struts are notorious for causeing dodgy camber when cornering, but as your talking about a EP3 with independant rear supension this certainly doesn't effect the rear end.
Your mate has either...
Not had his Geometry set
Got budget tyres
Can't drive
Or has lowered his car so far past the roll centre it's got hardly any rebound left at all.
Regardless of any of this, I can assure the handling capabilities of a civic is far better than a Astra/Corsa, and TBH the Civic's front setup isn't much to shout about either.
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Nic Barnes
Member
Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
User status: Offline
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not bothered.
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Rob B
Member
Registered: 8th Jan 04
Location: Area Motorsport Drives: Race EP3
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by GSi_16v
quote:
Originally posted by Jambo
but that has nothing to do with the suspension, the geomatry, the different wheels, the electric steering the electric pedals which is the hole reason they are turd.
i fully understand that, i know just how little feed back they have, but some people just to say, "they dont handle" when they can be made to handle very well indeed.
Castor is mainly the issue on the GSi like the Civic tbh, but the civic has the advantage with it's chassis and indepentant rear which slightly makes up for it. Both the GSi and Civic only run about 1 degree negative castor. Astra VXR i believe has 4.5 degrees as standard! which makes a hell of a difference
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Rob B
Member
Registered: 8th Jan 04
Location: Area Motorsport Drives: Race EP3
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Nic Barnes
not bothered.
I wouldn't expect you too
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Nic Barnes
Member
Registered: 5th Apr 04
Location: nowhere near ginger people
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob B
quote:
Originally posted by Nic Barnes
not bothered.
I wouldn't expect you too
your wikipedia answers dont impress me kid.
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Jamie_Hastings1
Member
Registered: 14th Aug 08
Location: Sanquhar, Dumfries and Galloway
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob B
quote:
Originally posted by steven_r2008
quote:
Originally posted by Rob B
Erm, whilst some things you've said i agree with. This is a comparison between a Astra Gsi and a CTR. The CTR has independant rear suspension, a well thought out MacPherson strut front setup. Which means with minimal mods you can gain alot of camber, can you even get camber on the back of a Astra? Without shims...
If you want a good handling car then double wishbone all round is the way to go like the DC2 or EK9.
camber on rear + wet roads = spin . i know this as my mate had a civic, lowered it, failed to get the camber arms that you need to buy additionaly so you don't get camber, bit of enthusiastic driving with my sat on his bumper in the corsa, going round a rather large island... low and behold the civic spun, corsa stayed planted . . . until i noticed i had my mate facing me, at which point (rather stupidly) my brakes went on and back end came round . fortunately i knew what to do so corrected it and managed to avoid a civic+corsa crash child.
it all depends on what kind of delivery you like. personally i like to feel the power of the car and not sit there wondering when it is going to kick in, hence why i would prefer the GSi, plus the fact i don't cross the 'ring' everyday to get to work, therefore prefer not to push my car beyond its limits around corners on a public road.
as people say, its completely down to personal preference and no matter what half the people say in this thread, whatever car you were more swayed to before starting this thread is more than likely going to be the car you get
Ok, you obviously know alot about vehicle dyanmic's and what would make a car "spin" in a corner.
Firstly, camber wet or dry will improve cornering stability. When you go round a bend, your suspension compresses creating camber, as the top of the wheel tucks in, it usually will improve the contact patch on the road. More camber = more contact patch when cornering.
But in the wet if the inside of your tyres thats contacting the road (with camber) and you corner hard and the inside cant gain enough grip to compress the suspension and put the rest of the tyre to the road you just end up with a car that can only put a percentage of tread on the road in the wet and be very light in corners.
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gavin18787
Premium Member
Registered: 22nd Feb 05
Location: Basildon, Essex
User status: Offline
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I think he ment negative camber, which will help
Although civics are notorious for a skittish rear in wet conditions.
Drives supercharged Tec with torque 
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Rob B
Member
Registered: 8th Jan 04
Location: Area Motorsport Drives: Race EP3
User status: Offline
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With 5 degree's of camber maybe, 2 Degrees which is roughly what he will have give or take a tiny ammount the inside of his tyre (presuming you mean the inside tyre wall) won't be touching the road, just the tread width.
I run -3 front and -2 rear on my Ep3 and it corners extremely well in all conditions and gives me very even tyre wear with no sidewall deformation and it very rarely get's driven "slowly"
[Edited on 25-02-2010 by Rob B]
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corsa120
Member
Registered: 4th May 02
Location: Northamptonshire
User status: Offline
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ok so the fuel econemy has been mentioned a handful of times........ ash just said civic gets 30mpg normal and 20 maybe slightly less when having a spirited drive.... AM I A MUPPET OR IS THIS NOT THE SAME AS MK4 give or take 1-2 mpg my gsi is currently sitting on 28.9mpg thats twon driving too so maybe i got a good one.
end of the day i am not sticking up for my gsi as i have driven other cars which are supposedly better and yes maybe some do have better features BUT THE GSI DOES THE JOB FOR WHAT I WANT IT TO DO, so is this not all that matters????
its does help its not my only vehicle, but me and the mrs use it for general life stuff like shopping/trips etc and it does that job very very well. (FOR ME)
its silly because i think gsi is a good tourer, eats the miles but then again you could say aston martin db9 is better so does this mean i should have one of these
[Edited on 25-02-2010 by corsa120]
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Novaneil
Member
Registered: 26th Oct 06
Location: Leamington Spa
User status: Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob B
Erm, whilst some things you've said i agree with. This is a comparison between a Astra Gsi and a CTR. The CTR has independant rear suspension, a well thought out MacPherson strut front setup. Which means with minimal mods you can gain alot of camber, can you even get camber on the back of a Astra? Without shims...
If you want a good handling car then double wishbone all round is the way to go like the DC2 or EK9.
Random comment I know, but the Whiteline Shims that are available for the Rear of the Astra actually "Reduce" Camber (along with less toe in) to provoke a more neutral handling setup and less understeer.
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Rob B
Member
Registered: 8th Jan 04
Location: Area Motorsport Drives: Race EP3
User status: Offline
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That's a good idea, know anyone thats tryed them ? Bet the turn in is far better. I'm at Uni in Lem dude didn't know you was from there!
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