BarnshaW
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Registered: 25th Oct 06
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it does in a way... but do you really think the general public drive differently if the temperature is 10 degrees outside or 3 degrees?
the reality is your are most likely not going to have an accident, yes you can bang on about how they are safer and prevent accidents, but i go back to my point that better brakes would do that so why dont you all go out and buy bigger brakes that will stop you quicker
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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You are completely wrong Ian. Unless you tyres are bald they aren't wrong. You aren't driving to the conditions. It's scary how many people 'need' winter tyres to not crash.
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Matt L
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Registered: 17th Apr 06
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quote:
Originally posted by John
I'm not sure what you are laughing at. Not my fault you can't drive.
not laughing at that just the fact that your saying you arent driving to the conditions when someone pulls out on you
take the example above, your driving along on an nsl road at 50 (so below the limit driving perfectly fine 'too the conditions'), someone pulls out on you, regardless of how if you were driving to the conditions or not there is now someone in front of you when you are doing 50, unless you go around driving at 2mph around every corner/coming up to junctions then there is always the risk of something happening like that.
Yes im not saying winter tyres are some kind of miracle and mean you will avoid hitting said person but if it helps reduce the stopping distance/helps avoid the accident due to better grip compared to normally tyres then i would much rather be in a car with winter tyres on.
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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Below the limit does not mean driving to the conditions.
Get roadcraft for a read then try and put some of it into practice. They come back.
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Matt L
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Registered: 17th Apr 06
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quote:
Originally posted by BarnshaW
it does in a way... but do you really think the general public drive differently if the temperature is 10 degrees outside or 3 degrees?
the reality is your are most likely not going to have an accident, yes you can bang on about how they are safer and prevent accidents, but i go back to my point that better brakes would do that so why dont you all go out and buy bigger brakes that will stop you quicker
you can have the biggest brakes in the world, they still arent the things connecting you too the roads to actually stop you.
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BarnshaW
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Registered: 25th Oct 06
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they are for the 80% of the year when you dont need winter tyres, but yet safety apparently does not apply then?
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Ian
Site Administrator
Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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quote:
Originally posted by John
You are completely wrong Ian. Unless you tyres are bald they aren't wrong. You aren't driving to the conditions. It's scary how many people 'need' winter tyres to not crash.
Perhaps wrong is the wrong word.
For example, I would use the wrong car, which is an Astra on 225 section tyres, I'd use the right car which is a Discovery on snow tyres.
I'd rather drive the Disco than take the Astra out and compensate by the fact I'm not in the Disco by driving it right. Suppose I don't have enough driver skill to compensate.
I know I've undermined the point by introducing another car but the point remains, I don't feel you can just claim to drive better yourself in the hope you'll be OK. My Astra was absolutely shit, like unbelievably couldn't even get up my road without sliding off towards the kerb. I could have managed, but I didn't mind denting my pride and admitted there were other solutions to driving in snow than claiming its fine and manning it out.
Driving to the conditions indeed. It'd take a week to get across town driving to the conditions in my Astra. Hence why it will be staying at home.
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Matt L
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Registered: 17th Apr 06
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quote:
Originally posted by John
Below the limit does not mean driving to the conditions.
Get roadcraft for a read then try and put some of it into practice. They come back.
"If you can't stop in time for someone pulling out on you, you are going too fast, no matter what the conditions. "
If someone pulls out on you because they havent looked/seen you it doesnt matter what speed your doing, you have no control over someone pulling out on you so regardless of how you drive short of driving up to every junction at 10mph incase they do pull out on you they you are never going to be 'driving to the conditions'.
basically someone pulls out on you tyres with better grip are going to help there is no denying that thats the only point i am trying to make.
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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And brakes are not important when you lock the wheels for fun, traction is by far the larger factor in those conditions.
But you have enough traction, and what you don't have you make up for with skill.
I'll just stick to massive expense 
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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John out of interest are you insured comp or TP? Or indeed at all, because the way you're talking there you don't appear to need it.
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Matt L
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Registered: 17th Apr 06
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quote:
Originally posted by BarnshaW
they are for the 80% of the year when you dont need winter tyres, but yet safety apparently does not apply then?
what point are you trying to make?
winter tyres give better grip in winter conditions,
a car with bigger brakes on and summer tyres may stop you quicker than a car with summer tyres and standard brakes
but at the end of the day in wintery conditions
a car with winter tyres and bigger brakes is still going to stop you quicker than a car with bigger brakes summer tyres on 
i really have lost the point you are trying to get across
yes for 80% of the year winter tyres arent needed but for that 20% of the year when winter tyres out perform summer tyres i know which i would rather have on my car.
[Edited on 08-11-2012 by Matt L]
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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But you don't need them Matt, just drive better. If you were only good enough, that would solve everything.
[Edited on 08-11-2012 by Ian]
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BarnshaW
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Registered: 25th Oct 06
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the point i am making is that your banging on about the safety aspects of winter tyres and how it will prevent accidents and be safer, but yet people wont spend money on upgrading brakes which will be beneficial the other 80% of the year...I mean the whole discussion here and argument is boiling down to safety according to you lot...
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BarnshaW
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Registered: 25th Oct 06
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no ian you just need winter tyres, they will make you a better driver and you can then overtake everyone on the dual carriageway at 70 and get everywhere on time.
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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Finally.
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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And re the brakes thing, I don't really agree, for the most part standard brakes will stop the car. Reaction times are a big part of that, or if they fade you're driving too hard.
The winter stuff is really to give you a lot more grip, like going from not much at all to quite a bit more.
Not like the brakes example where you're only really at a fringe benefit when driving really hard.
I see the point, why not buy brakes, but its not a good analogy IMO.
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Matt L
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Registered: 17th Apr 06
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Bradshaw all I am trying to get across is that winter tyres have more grip in winter than Sumner tyres and allow you to be better able to stop/avoid and accidents or getting stuck potentially not sayin they stop you from having them.
Basically your saying we might as well buy £30 tyres as they still work and just be better drivers.
End of the day a tyre with better grip is going to be better in any situation compared to one that isn't.
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BarnshaW
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Registered: 25th Oct 06
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but then from my perspective if you crash into kerbs in the winter you are also driving too hard....
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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Yes, quite, but driving hard in snow is 20mph and I'd want to be making more progress than that.
Driving hard in good conditions is normally over speed limits etc., so it becomes not ideal to do that a lot.
[Edited on 08-11-2012 by Ian]
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BarnshaW
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Registered: 25th Oct 06
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leave earlier, keep your normal tyres, save a few hundred quid and donate it to cancer research or tyre research as they are as dangerous as eachother apparently.
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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Don't even know why I'm worried about getting anywhere, I'm self employed, can't exactly be late for anything these days 
OK I'm bored now, its expensive and probably not really all that much worth it, but it is a bit, so I'm going to do it and so is Matt. Lets agree to disagree. Jim has done what he intended.
[Edited on 08-11-2012 by Ian]
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BarnshaW
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Registered: 25th Oct 06
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fair enough
anyone for some spring tyres?
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fir3vip3r
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Registered: 14th Jun 06
Location: Stevenage, Hertfordshire
User status: Offline
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Can you put me down for some autumnal tyres please, I lost traction on some brown leaves that were hogging the road today.
I can see the point, better grip in the snow and in cold conditions. But Barnshaw and john do make good points. Its a lot of money and i can count on my hands the amount of snowy driving days we had last year so don't really see the point.
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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Absolute nightmare getting home this morning. Temp displayed 7 degrees and I was wheel spinning wildly everywhere, car just kept spinning around in circles
Luckily the temp eventually rose to 7.5 and I was on my way. Someone was watching over me.
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dannymccann
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Registered: 9th Aug 06
Location: Doddington, Lincolnshire
User status: Offline
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I won't be investing in winter tyres and I will be using the same tyre set up I usedlast year, and the year before, some shitty £40 tyre on each corner, probably 4 different brands.
If it's bad enough I can't get off my driveway then I won't be going anywhere anyway, and if it isn't then I will drive to the conditions and my motorbike head will go on whenever I see another car (that is, in this condition, every single other person on the road is an attempted murderer)
On the subject of my motorbike, if there is even the hint of a frost, that will be staying covered up
[Edited on 09-11-2012 by dannymccann]
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