RichR
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Registered: 17th Oct 01
Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
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if your argument had any merit - a plane would require no wheels
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Hammer
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Registered: 11th Feb 04
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quote:
Originally posted by Cybermonkey
wont work, the tyres wont be able to handle the speed, they will burst and the aircraft will skid uncontrollably off the conveyor
 i think someone has spat the dummy
to get your head round it people need to stop assuming that the conveyor is counteracting the forward movement of the plane.
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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FFS if you are studying this i would have expected better,
Go back to my example about the roller skates
Ok when your running on a tread mill the only reason you go nowhere is becuase your legs are pushing against amn equal momentum in the opposite direction.
Right, if you put some rollerskates on, on the treadmill, you would still be able to pull yourself to the end using your arms and a rope as easy as if you were on a fixed surface
THINK ABOUT IT FFS.
Of course the plane needs wheels, it serves as a purpose to carry the plane along the ground, however this is just freewheeling, and the speed the ground is moving underneath has ne bearing, hence why we have AIR SPEED and GROUND SPEED.
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Cosmo
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Registered: 29th Mar 01
Location: Im the real one!
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
the plane is not propelled thru the wheels, if they were then yes it would not move, but the plane is propelled thru the jets
thats only when its in the air. The wheels could be still and the jets could cause forward propulsion on their own.
On the ground, even though the wheels arent driven the wheels would still be required to move faster to gain forward propulsion, and this would make the conveyor speed up.
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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you are still not understanding that the plane is not propelled BY the wheels when on the ground, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read my example and think about it
[Edited on 24-05-2006 by Steve]
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RichR
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Registered: 17th Oct 01
Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
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yes but on the fucking ground the relative airspeed and ground speed will be the fucking same - on the conveyor, the airspeed will be zero, the ground speed will be the wheel speed
of course the fucking wheels have an effect on the forward speed - they do not simply freewheel; as they are in contact with the ground - only when the wheels leave the ground does the acceleartin force and lift produced become greater than that required to keep the plane in equilibrium
however this wont occur on a conveyor as the two will just keep increasing in speed and contact will never be lost
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Cosmo
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Registered: 29th Mar 01
Location: Im the real one!
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Go back to my example about the roller skates
Ok when your running on a tread mill the only reason you go nowhere is becuase your legs are pushing against amn equal momentum in the opposite direction.
Right, if you put some rollerskates on, on the treadmill, you would still be able to pull yourself to the end using your arms and a rope as easy as if you were on a fixed surface
THINK ABOUT IT FFS.
BUT....
The tread mill is staying at the same speed, correct? Your assuming that it stays at one constant speed. But the question states that the conceyor matches the speed of the wheels.
But when you pull yourself forward the wheels turn faster, regardless of where the propulsion is moving from.
So if in this example the treadmill sped up to match the new speed of the wheels the top half of your body (pulling) would move forward but the skates would stay where they are.
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Brett
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Registered: 16th Dec 02
Location: Manchester
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Lee is right. Face it.
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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As the conveyor goes faster the wheels will just travel faster to counteract the conveyor spinning.
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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quote:
Originally posted by LiVe LeE
yes but on the fucking ground the relative airspeed and ground speed will be the fucking same - on the conveyor, the airspeed will be zero, the ground speed will be the wheel speed
of course the fucking wheels have an effect on the forward speed - they do not simply freewheel; as they are in contact with the ground - only when the wheels leave the ground does the acceleartin force and lift produced become greater than that required to keep the plane in equilibrium
however this wont occur on a conveyor as the two will just keep increasing in speed and contact will never be lost
in the conveyor situation, the ground speed will increase due to the wheels turning faster over the conveyor, howver the airspeed will show as similar to if the plane were accelerating on a stable surface. Soon youl click and youl realise that your wrong. You just looking at it from the wrong angle
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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quote:
Originally posted by loafofbrett
Lee is right. Face it.
no hes not
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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If a treadmill was travelling at twice the speed it was in steves example, when you pulled yourself forward the wheels would just spin twice as fast, this would have no bearing on how hard it was to pull yourself forward.
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RichR
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Registered: 17th Oct 01
Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
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no it is driven by the fucking engines, which drive the plane forward - the plane is attached to the wheels - these are in contact with the ground - these limit the speed of the plane
there fore my dear Mr Watson, the wheels/tyres forces of grip and gravity have to be overcome by producing upward lift and forward propulsion - this will not occur on the conveyor as there is no forward motion
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Go back to my example about the roller skates
Ok when your running on a tread mill the only reason you go nowhere is becuase your legs are pushing against amn equal momentum in the opposite direction.
Right, if you put some rollerskates on, on the treadmill, you would still be able to pull yourself to the end using your arms and a rope as easy as if you were on a fixed surface
THINK ABOUT IT FFS.
BUT....
The tread mill is staying at the same speed, correct? Your assuming that it stays at one constant speed. But the question states that the conceyor matches the speed of the wheels.
But when you pull yourself forward the wheels turn faster, regardless of where the propulsion is moving from.
So if in this example the treadmill sped up to match the new speed of the wheels the top half of your body (pulling) would move forward but the skates would stay where they are.
it does not matter how fast the treadmill goes, the wheels will just spin faster underneath you, you would still be able to pull your self to the end just as quick and easy
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Cosmo
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Registered: 29th Mar 01
Location: Im the real one!
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quote:
Originally posted by John
As the conveyor goes faster the wheels will just travel faster to counteract the conveyor spinning.
and then the conveyor will go faster to counteract the wheel speed. They will always cancel each other out and the plane would go nowhere!!
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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John gets it too 
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Brett
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Registered: 16th Dec 02
Location: Manchester
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by loafofbrett
Lee is right. Face it.
no hes not
He is. The conveyor speed matched the plane speed. Whilst the two wheels are on the ground the jets are simply pushing the plane forward on the wheels. It will go no where. It will stay in the same spot FFS.
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RichR
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Registered: 17th Oct 01
Location: Waterhouses, Staffordshire
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John, the forces needed to remain in equilibrium would have increased, so the force required to pull yourself forward would be a function of this increased equilibrium condition
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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no no no, i guarantee when you realise you are wrong, think about it please
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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Think about the rollerskates example, the wheels do not matter on this case.
Apart from the bearings blowing up at high speeds or whatever other technical difficultys the plane would take off in theroy imo.
Although i'll quite happily be proved otherwise.
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Cybermonkey
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Registered: 22nd Sep 02
Location: Sydney, Australia
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quote:
Originally posted by Sxi04
quote:
Originally posted by Cybermonkey
wont work, the tyres wont be able to handle the speed, they will burst and the aircraft will skid uncontrollably off the conveyor
i think someone has spat the dummy
not really, just something else to think about. and lee is right.
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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quote:
Originally posted by LiVe LeE
John, the forces needed to remain in equilibrium would have increased, so the force required to pull yourself forward would be a function of this increased equilibrium condition
stop using gay language your learnt in a classroom, i guarantee you are wrong
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Cosmo
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Registered: 29th Mar 01
Location: Im the real one!
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
it does not matter how fast the treadmill goes, the wheels will just spin faster underneath you, you would still be able to pull your self to the end just as quick and easy
yes it matters how fast its going. If it constantly matches the speed of the turning wheels in the opposite direction then no matter how hard you pull and how fast you made the wheels turn they wouldnt move.
Yeah you'd pull your top half forward but if the wheels stayed in constant contact they wouldnt move.
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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Somebody get to asda with an rc plane and settle this one and for all.
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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eh?? you arent thinking about it logically, think about actually doing it. your top half is connected to your bottom half which is connected to the skates so they will move too
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