spencer88
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Registered: 6th Oct 08
Location: cornwall
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So because the guy stopped shooting, it is deemed that we should not shoot him?
But, if he starts shooting at you again, it is then ok to kill him....
If you are at war, with a gun, that is in essence kill or be killed. If someone takes a shot at you, they are initiating war. If that was me, he would be dead also.
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Steve
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Registered: 30th Mar 02
Location: Worcestershire Drives: Defender
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I think if hed just shot him without all the dodgy behaviour dragging him off, turning cameras off etc, it probably would have gone unchallenged
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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quote:
Originally posted by spencer88
So because the guy stopped shooting, it is deemed that we should not shoot him?
But, if he starts shooting at you again, it is then ok to kill him....
If you are at war, with a gun, that is in essence kill or be killed. If someone takes a shot at you, they are initiating war. If that was me, he would be dead also.
If he stops shooting, puts his arms in the air and drops his weapon and surrenders then no, you cant kill him, why would you? The only reason to kill him now would be purely out of spite. If he stops shooting, but continues to point his gun at you, then obviously shoot the cunt 
Another person that has missed the point that this guy was unarmed and unable to harm you in anyway whatsoever. He wasnt shooting at the marine, he never shot at the marine at any point. It was never a "kill or be killed" moment
Also missing the point that the marine knew it was wrong and tried to hide what he had done.
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
I think if hed just shot him without all the dodgy behaviour dragging him off, turning cameras off etc, it probably would have gone unchallenged
Well, wouldnt say unchallenged, if his camera had remained on (as it did) it would have shown him killing him for no reason and i suspect he still would have been charged. Certainly all the dodgy stuff just makes it look even worse and will probably be taken into account when considering his minimum term.
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
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quote:
Originally posted by spencer88
If that was me, he would be dead also.
Which case, you've knowingly went against protocol and you'd be brought up on murder chargers - simples 
I think a lot of people are forgetting that we aren't there, in most part, to intentionally kill, can only engage the enemy if being fired upon (and have permission) and once a threat has been neutralised then it turns into a 'rescue mission'. Once you get your head around that then i think it create quite a clear line.
It isn't a case of 'kill or be killed' 
Edit - FU JJ for posting 'kill or be killed' whilst i was knocking up my reply 
[Edited on 11-11-2013 by Dom]
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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Sorry Dom  Its been a pleasure working with you in this debate however.
People should definitely watch the BBC Documentary that followed our troops in Afghan, really eye opening, before i watched it i didnt know anything about the protocol they must go through before engaging a target
Think it was called "Our War"
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Aaron
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Registered: 9th Aug 04
Location: Cottingham, East Riding
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Doesn't look to be on iPlayer yet, unless you have a link?
I have the day off, and it sounds like something I'd be interested in watching
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Aaron
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Registered: 9th Aug 04
Location: Cottingham, East Riding
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Probably these i suppose - http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=our+war+bbc
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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Aye, thems the ones, it was shown in 2011 so doubt it will be on iPlayer.
[Edited on 11-11-2013 by JonnyJ]
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Generation
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Registered: 7th Jul 09
Location: Essex
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I think half the people in this thread need to go and found out about the story, and listen to the video...
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JonnyJ
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Registered: 23rd Sep 05
Location: Scotchland
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quote:
Originally posted by Generation
I think half the people in this thread need to go and found out about the story, and listen to the video...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10432095/Recording-of-Royal-Marines-accused-of-murdering-Taliban-prisoner-released.html
Transcript:
"Get his arse over there"
[Cough]
"Fucking cunt, bastard."
"Fucking dirty."
“That’s it lads”
[Inaudible]
"Don't give a fuck about you son. Stop fucking whinging. Fucking prick."
"Over by that corn.
“Over here."
[Shouting and movement]
“That will do, that will do, that will do.”
“Out here?”
"Do you want him back in?”
“I want him back in here so I can see what I'm fucking doing.”
[Movement]
"Err, anybody want to do first aid on this idiot? No?
"No"
"Could put one in his head if you want? Take your pick.”
[Laughter]
"Not in his head because that will be fucking obvious.”
“Shoot him round here"
"In one round?”
"In one round."
“I'm going to switch this fucker off [helmet cam]. Everyone [inaudible] hates it mate.”
[Edited on 11-11-2013 by JonnyJ]
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spencer88
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Registered: 6th Oct 08
Location: cornwall
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Could of at least gone 'Get some, get some'
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Cavey
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Registered: 11th Nov 02
Location: Derby
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quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
quote:
Originally posted by spencer88
So because the guy stopped shooting, it is deemed that we should not shoot him?
But, if he starts shooting at you again, it is then ok to kill him....
If you are at war, with a gun, that is in essence kill or be killed. If someone takes a shot at you, they are initiating war. If that was me, he would be dead also.
If he stops shooting, puts his arms in the air and drops his weapon and surrenders then no, you cant kill him, why would you? The only reason to kill him now would be purely out of spite. If he stops shooting, but continues to point his gun at you, then obviously shoot the cunt
Another person that has missed the point that this guy was unarmed and unable to harm you in anyway whatsoever. He wasnt shooting at the marine, he never shot at the marine at any point. It was never a "kill or be killed" moment
Also missing the point that the marine knew it was wrong and tried to hide what he had done.
I've said all that a few times in this thread and it seems to have gone un-noticed, so i've given up on it now 
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Ben G
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Registered: 12th Jan 07
Location: Essex
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It's quite obvious some people in this thread have watched too many america, fuck yeah movies and believe thats exactly what happens out there.
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JordyCarter
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Registered: 14th Mar 10
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This guy was a Taliban commander, possibly plotting how to kill x amount of soldiers.
Maybe we should of captured him got info then killed him. Otherwise he is destined to die once caught.
[Edited on 11-11-2013 by JordyCarter]
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3CorsaMeal
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Registered: 11th Apr 02
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I think we should've given him compensation for shooting him with a helicopter, then brought him back to the UK and given him a 2 bedroom house in croydon
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LeeM
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Registered: 26th Sep 05
Location: Liverpool
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killing in self defence is ok, seems this guy was killed for pleasure
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Dom
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Registered: 13th Sep 03
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quote:
Originally posted by JordyCarter
This guy was a Taliban commander....
Not that it changes anything but missed this bit; got a source on the info?
quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
Sorry Dom Its been a pleasure working with you in this debate however.
Likewise! 
[Edited on 11-11-2013 by Dom]
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Russ
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Registered: 14th Mar 04
Location: Armchair
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daily mail said so..
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baza31
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Registered: 19th Apr 03
Location: yorkshire
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I would like to say fuck it as if other way around they would of killed a British/American soldier and probably hung them from a bridge whilst on fire . But no one deserves their life taking if innocent . He might of been up to no good but they seriously dropped a bollock doing it on camera . Them killing him and the publicity will have only increased the divide between not only both sides but also around the world .
I think they need to come down hard this time to show the other side that the rest of the army and country is not supportive of actions like this .
Only a matter of time till another beheading vid and then the Facebook crew will be going bonkers
(Is there a full vid to watch?  )
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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If you can only kill people if they're trying to kill you, how does anyone ever get killed?
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Marc
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Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: York
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Because there are always evil people out there that do not see a problem with killing people to either show their power or to prevent others from gaining power.
Just like some people go out on a Friday and Saturday night looking for trouble.
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Ian
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Registered: 28th Aug 99
Location: Liverpool
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But if you only start killing when someone tries it, who starts?
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John
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Registered: 30th Jun 03
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The bad guy, obviously. Not a sarcastic obviously, it's just really obvious.
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Marc
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Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: York
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Yes, the bad guy.
The guy barging you in a night club and then making out you barged him is the one that starts it.
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