strick206
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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
Rafa was the person to bring in a player who had scored a max of 16 goals a season in Spain who then went on and scored 33 in his first season, being part of the most prolific scoring partnership in Europe (Gerrard and Torres)
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Cosmo
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quote:
Originally posted by strick206
quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
Rafa was the person to bring in a player who had scored a max of 16 goals a season in Spain who then went on and scored 33 in his first season, being part of the most prolific scoring partnership in Europe (Gerrard and Torres)
True story - from what I read in some news article a bit back 
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Cosmo
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quote:
Originally posted by Danny P
I'm glad I didnt bother going out now.
Cant beat a good debate about football 
I just wish it was in a pub - where all football debates should be
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J da Silva
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Nationality means nothing, if your a striker, then you strike, if you can't then your not upto it. An out and out winger would be better there, not Kuyt, he can't cross.
I don't think Babel was that bad tbh, just not played upfront that's all, he ended up leavinf Ajax because they shifted him to the left wing forward.
I remember seeing Gerrards little picture on the right wing on the sky sports linee-up pre-game a few times, I can only repeat what I saw. It's Andy Gray and Martin Tyler you need to speak to about that.
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Danny P
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quote:
Originally posted by Jizinho Silva 10
Nationality means nothing, if your a striker, then you strike, if you can't then your not upto it. An out and out winger would be better there, not Kuyt, he can't cross.
Personally I'd class Kuyt as a Forward rather than a Striker.
He plays in a similar way to Rooney in which he works hard and bring's other players into play, wide men, Attacking Midfielders etc. Not all Forwards are there solely to score goals 
[Edited on 19-07-2008 by Danny P]
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Cosmo
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quote:
Originally posted by Jizinho Silva 10
Nationality means nothing, if your a striker, then you strike, if you can't then your not upto it. An out and out winger would be better there, not Kuyt, he can't cross.
I don't think Babel was that bad tbh, just not played upfront that's all, he ended up leavinf Ajax because they shifted him to the left wing forward.
I remember seeing Gerrards little picture on the right wing on the sky sports linee-up pre-game a few times, I can only repeat what I saw. It's Andy Gray and Martin Tyler you need to speak to about that.
Sorry, by Dutch Im meaning in the dutch league.
How can you say 'an out and out winger would be better there' when the system we play obviously suits both him and the team - MOTM performances and winning those games?!
If he was so pissed off with Ajax playing him there then its strange in the numerous interviews Ive read since joinging us he has said his favoured position is on the left of a front three - as he played for Ajax  Which is basically as he has been played in the second half of the season with Kuyt the right of the 3 and Gerrard forming the bottom of a diamond.
Its not Gray or Tyler speaking to me now and telling me Gerrard was on the right, its you I can onyl guess you didnt watch those games - as would be fairly obvious he wasnt on the right hand.
Unless both Kuyt AND Gerrard were there?
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strick206
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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
quote:
Originally posted by strick206
quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
Rafa was the person to bring in a player who had scored a max of 16 goals a season in Spain who then went on and scored 33 in his first season, being part of the most prolific scoring partnership in Europe (Gerrard and Torres)
True story - from what I read in some news article a bit back
Are we talking just in the CL?
Well Ronaldo/Rooney scored 12 between them
And Ronaldo/Tevez scored 12 between them
From what i've found Gerrard/Torres scored 12
And if we are counting domestic football, both our partnerships are above Gerrard/Torres
Was the article you read the Liverpool Echo?
Oh, and regarding Reina getting the golden glove again, that's a false prize imo, as united had more clean sheets but rotated the keepers more, so Reina only got that this season because they don't have another keeper
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Cosmo
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quote:
Originally posted by Danny P
Personally I'd class Kuyt as a Forward rather than a Striker.
He plays in a similar way to Rooney in which he works hard and bring's other players into play, wide men, Attacking Midfielders etc. Not all Forwards are there solely to score goals
Stop making me agree with you
He is a right forward, and is doing the job amazingly well for both club and country.
I find it laughable that Rafa has put him in this position, it was adopted by Van Basten, and now Kuyt is being used as an example of not getting the best out of a player
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strick206
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About if Liverpool beat United twice instead of losing twice, that's just all big IF's
We lost at home and away to Man City, which is a far easier task to overturn than Liverpool beating United home and away
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J da Silva
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Cosmo we obviously have different views so this is my last take on it and then I'll get back to reading about transfers, but Babel is just being displomatic there, he obviously thinks he'd sooner be out of position for Liverpool than Ajax, more CL opportunities, more pay etc....
I'd like to see David Villa with Torres though, good understanding, any developments on that?
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Cosmo
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quote:
Originally posted by strick206
True story - from what I read in some news article a bit back
Are we talking just in the CL?
Well Ronaldo/Rooney scored 12 between them
And Ronaldo/Tevez scored 12 between them
From what i've found Gerrard/Torres scored 12
And if we are counting domestic football, both our partnerships are above Gerrard/Torres
Was the article you read the Liverpool Echo?
No it was in whichever broadsheet has that stats page. Was a round up of the season just gone and said they won some European award. It surprised me but I can only guess they classed Ronaldo as a midfielder and Gerrard as a second striker - Ive no idea.
Either way, at worst its second highest - which still proves my point anyway
quote:
Oh, and regarding Reina getting the golden glove again, that's a false prize imo, as united had more clean sheets but rotated the keepers more, so Reina only got that this season because they don't have another keeper
False prize?
So rotating is bad when we do it, but an excuse for one of your players not winning something?
Ok in that case Ronaldo's golden boot is a false prize as Torres was rotated more
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Cosmo
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quote:
Originally posted by strick206
About if Liverpool beat United twice instead of losing twice, that's just all big IF's
We lost at home and away to Man City, which is a far easier task to overturn than Liverpool beating United home and away
Again read the whole point...I pointed the two games against United out as it was you we were 11 points behind (not City, not Blackburn, etc. etc.). So I said IF and it was a big if, we turned those two games around to even draws, then we wouldnt be far behind or even ahead.
It was more to point out we werent far from you (as in previous seasons) and head to head games can make the difference rather than a whole season against other teams.
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J da Silva
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I wouldn't focus too much on the results against the likes of Man Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal, I'm sure the dropped points against the lower teams are the ones people kick themselves over.
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strick206
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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
False prize?
So rotating is bad when we do it, but an excuse for one of your players not winning something?
Ok in that case Ronaldo's golden boot is a false prize as Torres was rotated more
The Golden glove tends to highlight the best keeper in the prem, now im not saying it is VDS, because it's not, but it certainly isn't Reina
How many games did torres play last season?
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Cosmo
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quote:
Originally posted by Jizinho Silva 10
Cosmo we obviously have different views so this is my last take on it and then I'll get back to reading about transfers, but Babel is just being displomatic there, he obviously thinks he'd sooner be out of position for Liverpool than Ajax, more CL opportunities, more pay etc....
I'd like to see David Villa with Torres though, good understanding, any developments on that?
I have no problem with your view, I have a problem with what you are basing these views on which to me are on strange or inaccurate things. You are entitled to say you dont see us winning it, thats fine and good, but the things you posted as your reasons why just made me laugh as are based more on the medias view rather than actually watching us (such as the rotation point!).
Agreed about Villa though.
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strick206
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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
quote:
Originally posted by strick206
About if Liverpool beat United twice instead of losing twice, that's just all big IF's
We lost at home and away to Man City, which is a far easier task to overturn than Liverpool beating United home and away
Again read the whole point...I pointed the two games against United out as it was you we were 11 points behind (not City, not Blackburn, etc. etc.). So I said
IF and it was a big if, we turned those two games around to even draws, then we wouldnt be far behind or even ahead.
It was more to point out we werent far from you (as in previous seasons) and head to head games can make the difference rather than a whole season against other teams.
That's better 
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Cosmo
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quote:
Originally posted by strick206
The Golden glove tends to highlight the best keeper in the prem, now im not saying it is VDS, because it's not, but it certainly isn't Reina
How many games did torres play last season?
Im not saying he is the best keeper either, I pointed out he has won the Golden Glove in each of his three seasons here.
But to say its a false prize is fucking ridiculous as you can then say that about ALL prizes given out for certain stats.
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Cosmo
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Nearly as big an IF as your....IF we didnt rotate...blah blah blah.
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strick206
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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
Ok in that case Ronaldo's golden boot is a false prize as Torres was rotated more
Come on Cosmo, you're better than that
Torres:
1st team games: 47
1st team goals: 33
Ronaldo:
Appearances 45
Goals 42
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strick206
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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
quote:
Originally posted by strick206
The Golden glove tends to highlight the best keeper in the prem, now im not saying it is VDS, because it's not, but it certainly isn't Reina
How many games did torres play last season?
Im not saying he is the best keeper either, I pointed out he has won the Golden Glove in each of his three seasons here.
But to say its a false prize is fucking ridiculous as you can then say that about ALL prizes given out for certain stats.
All i'm saying is the golden glove should be replaced with the team clean sheets, which will never happen but is more accurate when taking into consideration, or even, clean sheets/games ratio
I don't know the stats for Reina or VDS or Cech to post this up, reina could still win it
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Cosmo
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Minutes on pitch....
As I said Strick, if you want to dismiss awards given out for personal stats then their is a way to do it for all of them.
OK then - its a false prize as Roanldo wasnt rotated as much as Dong. Or wasnt as injured as Drogba.
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Cosmo
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quote:
Originally posted by strick206
All i'm saying is the golden glove should be replaced with the team clean sheets, which will never happen but is more accurate when taking into consideration, or even, clean sheets/games ratio
I don't know the stats for Reina or VDS or Cech to post this up, reina could still win it
You're not getting this...
Its a personal award, not a team award, a personal one. Much like the Golden Boot.
Why dont we get rid of that and replace it with msot goals scored by a team?
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strick206
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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
Minutes on pitch....
As I said Strick, if you want to dismiss awards given out for personal stats then their is a way to do it for all of them.
OK then - its a false prize as Roanldo wasnt rotated as much as Dong. Or wasnt as injured as Drogba.
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strick206
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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
Why dont we get rid of that and replace it with msot goals scored by a team?
That's fair enough
As all this discussion has been about the team hasn't it? Not just individuals in the team?
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Marc
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quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
Liverpool reserves have won the league the last two seasons. Liverpool Youth team have won the FA Youth cup 2 in the last 3yrs.
Babel came in and scored 11 goals in his first season
Rafa was the person who put Kuyt onto the right, where he then played for Holland so well - having won MOTM in more or less every game in the latter stages of the CL.
Rafa was the person to bring in a player who had scored a max of 16 goals a season in Spain who then went on and scored 33 in his first season, being part of the most prolific scoring partnership in Europe (Gerrard and Torres)
Rafa is the one who has a keeper who has kept the most clean sheets in the PL in each of his three seasons here.
Rafa is the one who has put a defence together who conceeded less goals than the Champions in 2 (3?) of the last 4 seasons.
quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo
Im answering your points - you said Rafa buys instant gems - I showed you he doesnt.
Yous aid Rafa cant get the best out of players - I showed you he can.
And it still isn't enough to win the Premier League title. So he has a point in what hes saying.
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