whitter45
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Agree got to take the very few good bits for Ferrari
I am not saying what Lewis did wasn't good he is a very good driver but not as good as the fan boys think he is
Either way great race, great win for ric and also a great recovery from Lewis
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Jambo
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I also applauded a fantastic 360 
Brilliant race again and 6th from 16th for Kimi  with Alonso on the podium imagine Mattiachi has removed his cv from monster this evening 
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Marc
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Fucking cunts why should Lewis slow down
I thought this. If Rosberg needs to pit and can't get passed, he can't get passed and should carry on.
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JonnyJ
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I think at the time, they thought Lewis was going to catch and overtake Alonso/hold off Ricciardo to win, and they wanted to give Nico as good a chance as possible of getting passed them two and get 2nd. Didn't play out like that, think they underestimated the amount the prime would degrade and the magic Fernando would work with those softs.
In the end it was probably a blessing in disguise for Mercedes that he didn't lift and let him through. They are already fielding calls of favouritism, can you imagine the fallout if he'd have caught an easily passed Lewis, all because they told him to let him passed? They'd have also had an extremely unhappy Lewis.
The right outcome happened in the end. Nico couldn't get close enough to make a move and lost out because of it.
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Jambo
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Ricciardo apparently listened to Angrls and airwaves pre race to get him in the zone, tweeted it and Tom Delonge retweeted it. 
He's a lovely chap
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Rob_Quads
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I did think the orders from Merc were going a step too far. They have been very vocal about not having team orders but that sounded very much like one.
To be honest I think the way it ended up, having listened to the interview with Toto afterwards he already knew the end result was the right one and it would have been the wrong call for Lewis to let him through.
Lewis was being fair IMO. He could have just said straight out No but said he would let him through if he was up behind him, but Nico couldn't get close at all
Going into the summer break I think its a good state. RB have had a positive finish which will boost them an encourage them to challenge more, Lewis closed the gab a bit more to make sure they are still fighting at the top.
Having watched the slow-mo Vettel did touch the barrier just not very hard but he did very well to control it, specially compared to the other attempted which ended up with a car all over the straight.
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whitter45
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agree Lewis should not have yielded to Rosberg unless Rosberg was all over his gearbox and easily faster
The fact he couldn't get close meant it was the right call by Lewis
I really like Rosberg and think he is the better driver of the 2 but doesn't help himself when he just thinks team orders should come into play
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Steve
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Why do you think he's the better driver of the two?
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Corsa_Sport21
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Possibly because he is leading the championship??
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Jambo
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here we go here we go
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Steve
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quote:
Originally posted by Corsa_Sport21
Possibly because he is leading the championship??
By driver skill alone?
Tell me, how many races has Nico won where Lewis has had no bad luck and had a fair challenge? Monaco you say? you mean the track where overtaking is non existent and even then he screwed up Lewis's quali.
Next tell me, of the two times this season they have been racing at the end, who has come out top, and who had the worse tyres at said stage?
[Edited on 28-07-2014 by Steve]
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Marc
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Well I'm going to be controversial and say that Kimi and Alonso are better drivers than Hamilton.
What are your thoughts Stcheven?
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whitter45
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Alonso is the best driver on the grid IMO
He has been for the past 7 years but hasn't had the right material to prove it at Ferrari
What he has achieved with some of the cars, I question would anyone else be able to do that
Hamiltion is a great driver and has outright pace but is not the complete driver, some of which is because he wasn't managed right at Mclaren
All my opinion and is probably biased but that's how most people make decisions and follows their favorite drivers and teams
His body language on sunday on the podium said it all - agree he wants to win and its in someways good to see him disappointed with third but its the way he carrys himself - and then wonders why alot of the drivers and fans don't like him
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JonnyJ
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Its fine everyone giving these opinions out but at least try back it up with reasons.
Struggling to see how we can say Rosberg is better than Lewis. In their one and half seasons as team mates Lewis has beaten him.
Last season he took more poles than him. He took more points despite one race where he was comfortably leading until his tyre exploded (which went on to gift the win to Nico after Vettel also broke down).
This season, mechanical issues aside, hes beating him.If you're looking for who is the best driver you have to take events which are out of their control out of the equation, you cant just point at a championship table and go "look, see, better".
So take Australia out of it because Lewis had mechanical failure. Lewis then smashed Rosberg fair and square in Malaysia, by 20 seconds i believe. After that it came out the Nico had taken a look through Lewis' data and figured out what he was doing to be so fast.
In Bahrain, Nico was beaten by Lewis despite him having a tyre on that was 8 tenths - 1 sec a lap faster.
China Nico qualified poorly and got caught out at the start, and it took him most of the race to battle from 9th to 2nd, despite it been one of the easiest tracks to overtake on.
He was beaten in Spain fair and square.
Nico beat Lewis in Monaco in erm, slightly dodgy circumstances. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on that one but he couldnt lose that race once in front, certainly doesnt take much skill to keep someone behind.
Canada he beat Lewis fair and square in quali but in the race Lewis was all over him until the car developed a problem. Even then Lewis was infront of him, then his car failed, again. I'll give him credit for managing the issue well but he got lucky that he had Perez as a barrier between him and the two bulls/Massa otherwise they'd have had him.
Austria is the only one you can say Nico beat Lewis. Although even then, the cars where managing brake issues leaving Lewis unable to properly attack.
Britain we'll dismiss because Nico had a failure. We'll never know if Lewis would've beaten him without that.
Germany we'll dismiss seeing as Lewis had to start from the back
Hungary again, Lewis had to start from the back but he still beat Nico. Some fortune in that with a safety car but even after that Nico should've beaten Lewis. He was 4th and Lewis 13th when that safety car came out and the pitstops were done. He lost places to Alonso and Vergne and then couldnt get past him as soon as he pitted it took Lewis one lap to do him. As much as he got unlucky with the safety car he still should've won it but couldnt as he didnt have the skill to pass or defend when he needed to.
I make it 3-1 to Lewis in fair battles this season.
As for Kimi, are we talking about the same Kimi who is sat 88 points behind his team mate this season? Ok.
Alonso I'll give you. I think hes the best in the sport at the minute. Very rarely fails to impress me.
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tom130691
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quote:
Originally posted by Marc
Well I'm going to be controversial and say that Kimi and Alonso are better drivers than Hamilton.
What are your thoughts Stcheven?
Alonso is the best driver on the grid, and has been the last couple of years, 90% down to his mental strengths,
shame he couldnt get the win yesterday,
Hamilton is quicker but not a better driver
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tom130691
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quote:
Originally posted by whitter45
Alonso is the best driver on the grid IMO
He has been for the past 7 years but hasn't had the right material to prove it at Ferrari
What he has achieved with some of the cars, I question would anyone else be able to do that
Hamiltion is a great driver and has outright pace but is not the complete driver, some of which is because he wasn't managed right at Mclaren
All my opinion and is probably biased but that's how most people make decisions and follows their favorite drivers and teams
His body language on sunday on the podium said it all - agree he wants to win and its in someways good to see him disappointed with third but its the way he carrys himself - and then wonders why alot of the drivers and fans don't like him
beat me to it
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JonnyJ
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quote:
Originally posted by whitter45
His body language on sunday on the podium said it all - agree he wants to win and its in someways good to see him disappointed with third but its the way he carrys himself - and then wonders why alot of the drivers and fans don't like him
I've seen that body language before and it was when Mclaren were fucking him about. It was no doubt on his mind right then that his own team had just asked him to move over for Rosberg and in doing so, would've jeopardised his championship battle. Think he had every right to be pretty pissed off. FWIW in the interviews post race he was delighted to be able to get back up to 3rd, which makes me think finishing 3rd wasnt what irked him, it was the farce that led to him starting from the pitlane in the first place and compounded by the teams request to let Rosberg through.
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whitter45
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quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
quote:
Originally posted by whitter45
His body language on sunday on the podium said it all - agree he wants to win and its in someways good to see him disappointed with third but its the way he carrys himself - and then wonders why alot of the drivers and fans don't like him
I've seen that body language before and it was when Mclaren were fucking him about. It was no doubt on his mind right then that his own team had just asked him to move over for Rosberg and in doing so, would've jeopardised his championship battle. Think he had every right to be pretty pissed off. FWIW in the interviews post race he was delighted to be able to get back up to 3rd, which makes me think finishing 3rd wasnt what irked him, it was the farce that led to him starting from the pitlane in the first place and compounded by the teams request to let Rosberg through.
Maybe the case but there are ways to get your point across without doing it on the podium in which Ric and Alonso derved their places
He couldnt really be arsed to be involved in the celebrations.
Eitherway its the way he is off track and his comments which overshadow is talent IMO
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JonnyJ
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Im sure it didnt ruin Ric and Alonso's day that he wasnt doing kneeslides across the podium. What better way to send your message across than where the world can see it.
Merc seem to have got the message anyway, saying today they are going to have to re-analyse how the manage their drivers from now on, as it wasnt fair what they asked Lewis to do.
With both titles all but sewn up i think its time drivers got a strategist each, working for them alone to get them the best result. They arent going to lose the constructors now. Its time to let them go at it full pelt.
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Marc
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quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
As for Kimi, are we talking about the same Kimi who is sat 88 points behind his team mate this season? Ok.
Alonso I'll give you. I think hes the best in the sport at the minute. Very rarely fails to impress me.
Not this season no, he oozed class and potential last season with Lotus but was unable to properly compete. For what ever reason this season he isn't performing as well as I think he should be. Certainly capable of being up there.
Alonso's drive on worn tyres towards the end of the race showed how good he is, not that anyone is disputing that!
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whitter45
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quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
Im sure it didnt ruin Ric and Alonso's day that he wasnt doing kneeslides across the podium. What better way to send your message across than where the world can see it.
Merc seem to have got the message anyway, saying today they are going to have to re-analyse how the manage their drivers from now on, as it wasnt fair what they asked Lewis to do.
With both titles all but sewn up i think its time drivers got a strategist each, working for them alone to get them the best result. They arent going to lose the constructors now. Its time to let them go at it full pelt.
agree I hope they let them both race to the title
The request was wrong, but Hamilton did not comply with the request and the team have said no actions will be taken towards hamilton because of that - even if they have reviewed it after the race and said it was the wrong call. at the time they thought it was right but he didn't bother.
Its very much the vettel story in which Hamilton will start to think he is above the team and make his own decisions
He needs managing better IMO
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Jambo
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Something that could be entered into the fray here, which IMO is often overlooked and is as relavent to Kimi's lack of performance as well as Lewis' "bad luck"
Garage is split into two, each driver having their own "team". It is clear that Alonso/Nico have the better selection in both teams.
F1 is a team race, not just the driver...
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Jambo
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quote:
Originally posted by JonnyJ
As for Kimi, are we talking about the same Kimi who is sat 88 points behind his team mate this season? Ok.
Alonso I'll give you. I think hes the best in the sport at the minute. Very rarely fails to impress me.
The same Kimi who beat Hamilton in the 2007 title race
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whitter45
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quote:
Originally posted by Jambo
Something that could be entered into the fray here, which IMO is often overlooked and is as relavent to Kimi's lack of performance as well as Lewis' "bad luck"
Garage is split into two, each driver having their own "team". It is clear that Alonso/Nico have the better selection in both teams.
F1 is a team race, not just the driver...
i wouldn't saw Hamilton has the better selection
If anything the team protect him more and he certainly works the media more
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Marc
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quote:
Originally posted by whitter45
If anything the team protect him more and he certainly works the media more
Which is what annoys me about the Hamilton show.
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