MattyB
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quote:
so you are running more torque than steve yes, but he has a lightweight car so he will accelerate off the line a lot quicker, and steve has more bhp than you so he will continue to accelerate quicker than you all the way up the range.
end of the day, you'd struggle against a vtr let alone a gti
Whoever started ANY sort of comment that my 306 D Turbo would beat a 106 GTi off the line, or to 100 for that matter!!?????
For fcuks sake, why doesnt anyone read the posts first, rather than jump on this rapidly expanding band wagon!!!
The point of my arguement tho whole way through this thread is acceleration from 60mph plus, which is where torque is vitally important. This is from side by side at a constant 60mph.
As i've said for the 20th time now, i am basing my judgements on Steve's video, but this only gives a representation of him accelerating right thru the gears past 60.
Yeah power is good, but its a calculation of rate of force delivered. Torque is the actually turning force provided by the engine, calculated in weight. Therefore, in higher gears (where more is demanded of the engine), torque comes into play alot more than in 1st and 2nd gear, where the engine spins up easily (due to far higher ratios).
What i am suggesting is that the rate of acceleration isnt as great from a smaller capacity engine which has lower torque levels, and there fore, in higher gears, acceleration is less.
Matt
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sxi boy
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Registered: 11th Apr 02
Location: north east Drives: clio 182
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well if u look at that vid steves car hits 100 in about 18/19 secs, thats leon cupra R, ITR sorta times and they dont struggle.
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MattyB
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Location: 118.5bhp :D
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quote:
Originally posted by Jacko@FFWD
MattyB, I appreciate what you are saying but I can guarantee you that steves car is very quick! Its hardly brilliant footage as he was recording while he was driving. We attend a fair few sprint days with Steve and if your not too far away by all means join up with us and you can run a standing quarter to see what she does. Also you can try your rolling speed acceleration test as I know steve will be more than happy to oblige!
Ah at last, some1 with some DECENCY to read my posts and then comment and allow me a fair say!
Rather than reading a post from page 1 or 2, and go straight to the quick reply and whack in " A 106 WOULD EASILY BEAT UR 306 ON THE 1/4 blah blah blah, i am so great, stfu" and all that other crap people have copied off vibs + Steve
I know standard little GTis are rapid, let alone one with 140bhp!! This is clear from the vid, as i've said. The needle really flies up to 40/50 odd. Thats very impressive, and no doubt, on the 1/4, before i'd even got to 20mph, Steve wud be long gone!!!! But yes, thats wots expected!!! Its a 120bhp in a car that weighs sod all. I drive a diesel which weighs loads and is designed for Economy.
I would be VERY happy to attend a 1/4 sprint day. I'm not too bothered bout beating anyone, coz this is a mean feat in a Diesel, but i'd like to give my 60-100 spring a go!!
Whens the next one?? and where!!?? lol do u run at santa pod?
Matt
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Screaming Vtec
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Registered: 29th Jul 03
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Torques good, but if you have low enough gearing you get the torque multiplyer effect...
Why do you think F1 cars are fast? they got feck all torque, (comparatively speaking)..
Mines only got 130lbs/ft torque, but will waste yours 60-100... only due to the gearing..
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vibrio
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quote:
Originally posted by Kev_Clio_172
hmmmm ill love to see ya on the tracks..... 1/4 mile and around a circuit ill hammer u all the way mate. puntos are well known for shit handling throughout the range. says it all.....100bhp at wheels... nice figure and its only powerful at that rev range coz thats where the turbo come in....read the graph
wheel power is at the right. 133hp it's powerful from 3000-6000rpm
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vibrio
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quote:
Originally posted by sxi boy
quote:
Originally posted by MattyB
quote:
Originally posted by sxi boy
you're making the point about steve's lack of displacement well consider this, im running a 1.8 16v clio yes, now as it stands (chipped, sealed i/k, de-cat, full magnex, rolling on 17s) i have no doubt that steve would be slightly quicker than me and my car does not struggle
How much power/torque does your car produce?
Have you ever raced Steve's Car
How much does your car weigh?
You run 17"s, Steve is on std 14"s.
Matt
i havent raced steve's car, but ive raced many saxo vts and came out on top in str8 line
my car weighs 980kgs, std torque is 120 lb ft, i would expect me to be running over 130lb ft torque now
torque is ur low down pull, i.e. what helps you get off the line, bhp is your top end power that helps you pull towards the end of your gears
so you are running more torque than steve yes, but he has a lightweight car so he will accelerate off the line a lot quicker, and steve has more bhp than you so he will continue to accelerate quicker than you all the way up the range.
end of the day, you'd struggle against a vtr let alone a gti
no torque is felt through the rev range. BHP is just a calculated figure that you get from torque and revs.
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vibrio
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quote:
Originally posted by MattyB
quote:
Originally posted by vibrio
quote:
Originally posted by MattyB
quote:
Originally posted by Simon L
MattyB> My VTR has around 119bhp and 114lb/ft of torque, and i beat a 306 DTS @ Crail by a huge distance, and it wasnt gaining on me at any point. I roughly ran a 16 flat, and he was in the 18/19's i think, some were in the 20's.
I'd be interested to see your RR graph.
Sorry i am not familier with Crail - i guess it is a 1/4 mile strip?
Power is vital for acceleration, which is why your modified with 120bhp will storm to 60 odd a hell of a lot quicker than a D Turbo, which is low on power (for its size), and there for its 0-60 is not that impressive.
Was the DTS tuned? If so, how much bhp/torque is it running? If u dont know either of these, then ur point is useless.
A standard DTS runs 92 bhp, and the turbo doesnt boost up till 3k revs, which is very poor. The fact that beat one in a light little NA saxo with 120bhp is hardly impressive, and no one would dispute the facts u have put forward.
At a guess, i would run bout 16.5->17s 1/4, and the fact that you too would beat me up the strip is a very good forcast. I do not dispute this, and have not done so in the entire thread.
However, what i would like to do, is sit at 50mph side by side on the motorway with a car such as yours, and see what the difference is when we both launch. I feel u may be very suprize, as i can pull 50-70 in 5s.
Please also note, that up the strip, the D Turbo driver has to battle with gear changes more often that you, and gear changes also take longer due to the derv box's set up.
Matt
[Edited on 20-11-2003 by MattyB]
I have to say that if you have a race you don;t just floor it in 5th. my car out performs a lot of cars 50-70mph in top gear however if I was racing I would drop it to 3rd no just sit in 5th
Why would i floor it in 5th gear? It would seem you have also made this up for some reason?????
at 50mph, i would be at 3.1k in 3rd, with the boost on hold ready to go.
thats still slower than steve though
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vibrio
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quote:
Originally posted by Screaming Vtec
Torques good, but if you have low enough gearing you get the torque multiplyer effect...
Why do you think F1 cars are fast? they got feck all torque, (comparatively speaking)..
Mines only got 130lbs/ft torque, but will waste yours 60-100... only due to the gearing..
I mentioned the gear ratio thing earlier. it was ignored 
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MattyB
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Registered: 13th Nov 01
Location: 118.5bhp :D
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i also mentioned gearing early, when it comes to sprints, Pug deisel boxes are crud.
Very long ratios, and a time zapping gear change. However, well suited for economy. Cant complain at 70mph at 2.5k revs.
Matt
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BabyBlade
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Registered: 5th Feb 03
Location: Hereford Rides: Ninja 600
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this thread bores me
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vibrio
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just for the record. comapring Steve's video to mine he is around 0.75s quicker 60 to 90mph than my punto was when it was standard. I was one up when I took the video. between 70 and 90 the difference is 1/2 that
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vibrio
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quote:
Originally posted by Sethion33
this thread bores me
this thread is what makes CS so good though. arguing about these things is good fun. no one takes it seriously
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Marc
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Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: York
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when u gettin a fast car ross?
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vibrio
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quote:
Originally posted by 16vmarc
when u gettin a fast car ross?
when I get beat by a TDi
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Marc
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Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: York
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Sooty
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Registered: 9th Mar 03
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this thread is cool
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MattyB
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Location: 118.5bhp :D
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quote:
Originally posted by vibrio
quote:
Originally posted by 16vmarc
when u gettin a fast car ross?
when I get beat by a TDi
Looks like you gonna need one next time up Scotland way then 
[Edited on 20-11-2003 by MattyB]
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Sooty
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Matt ya still aint told me which rr ya going to on saturday 
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MattyB
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yeah i did mate, check page 5 or 6.
Its the PGAC sussex Vs Kent RR day, down at minispeed in Surrey (nr. Brooklands)
Matt
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Sooty
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ahh sorry.... I got lost in all this
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vibrio
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you got lost in his soot
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BabyBlade
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Location: Hereford Rides: Ninja 600
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quote:
Originally posted by vibrio
quote:
Originally posted by Sethion33
this thread bores me
this thread is what makes CS so good though. arguing about these things is good fun. no one takes it seriously
It's got to the stage now where argueing about gti's all day is getting a bit boring 
I also feel your wrong, seems quite afew people are taking it seriously, even if you aint
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vibrio
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I feel people take me too seriously. plus if you don;t want to argue about cars get your bald ass out of the thread
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wainey
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Registered: 20th Oct 02
Location: walsall west midlands
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quote:
Originally posted by vibrio
I feel people take me too seriously. plus if you don;t want to argue about cars get your bald ass out of the thread
i want to argue the fact that your saying dump valves decrease performance, they were never intended to help in performance just to prolong the life of a turbo by getting rid of excess back pressure built up in the turbo! please gtf, suppose your wastegate chatter helps you doesnt it? not to think that allowing it to do this sends pressure back into the turbo pgtf
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Marc
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Registered: 11th Aug 02
Location: York
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If you needed these ptttsh dumpvalves why dont they come as standard?
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